I agree Chiltons222. The direction the club has gone in has had more to do with the aims / ambitions of the owners than the abilities of the management and playing staff. The post WW2 ownership has been well documented with the Needlers, Lloyd, Fish, Pearson, Duffen, Bartlett and now the Allams, but we don't know much about the earlier owners except they seemed to reside over contant debt. Can anyone tell us more about these people? Here are a few different views on the Needlers to start: Harold Needler - Chairman (1945-1975) Profile: It may come as a surprise to find a past chairman of the club sitting alongside some of the greats of Hull City. His seat is well merited however for in the eyes of many Tiger fans of earlier generations, without the intervention of Harold Needler Hull City would not exist. At a time when the club was ravaged by financial gloom and doom - a scenario that has familiar overtones with the last two decades of the club's existence - it was Harold Needler who invested the princely sum of £10,000 to ensure that the club could continue. Not a sum of any great significance in today's financial climate, but in the middle part of the 20th century it was sufficient to gain a controlling interest in a club that was going nowhere. In partnership with his brothers they took over the assets of the club and by the end of the Second World War they had provided the team with a new chairman - Harold Needler, a new ground - Boothferry Park and a new manager - Major Frank Buckley. Determined to provide a successful football team for the City, he was not afraid to spend substantial amounts of his own money to meet that objective. Neither was he afraid of being innovative; his appointment of Raich Carter as player-manager was one of the first such appointments within the game and it gave the club some of the most successful and happiest times in its history. He was also the first chairman to offer his manager, Cliff Britton, a 10-year contract. It was a contract he honoured, a far cry from today's world. His generosity was never more evident than in the 60's when, following the public flotation of his company Hoveringham Gravels, he gave the club £200,000 worth of shares in the company. The shares rapidly increased in value and allowed the club to develop not only the team - peruse the other occupants of this pantheon of Tiger Legends and Needler funded acquisitions will emerge - but also the ground, such that in the middle of the 60's the Tigers were on the threshold of Division One - their holy grail. Alas the 'holy grail' was not to be achieved, but it was never for the lack of effort on Harold's part. He retired from his position of Club chairman during the latter part of the 70's his dream unfulfilled but his reputation untarnished. No one from the world of football, who came into contact with Harold Needler, had a bad word to say about him. Not my assessment, but that of Tommy Docherty's who was well versed in the world of football directors. Needler involved himself in the club on a daily basis and was a regular visitor to daily training sessions. His involvement never crossed the line into interference however and he always allowed his managers' to manage. Harold Needler loved football. What he loved about it was Hull City. http://www.hullcity-mad.co.uk/feat/edy5/harold_needler_27864/index.shtml HAROLD NEEDLER Dramatis personae As chairmen and owners go, Hull City know what it’s like to see both compassion and spite rule the roost in the boardroom. So many of the recent besuited figureheads have either emerged as icons worthy of immortalisation or villains worthy of incineration. Harold Needler’s commitment to the Tigers was long, unflinching, loyal and active to the very end – literally so, given that he was in control of the club until the day he died. Needler bought the club when it was dead, gave it the new home that the previous regime had only seen half completed prior to the war dissolving any short term hope of a future, sorted out the identity as far as team colours were concerned (despite an initial period in an unattractive blue kit while awaiting the materials ordered) and appointed Major Frank Buckley as manager after initially using him as a go-between in a futile attempt to attract Stan Cullis from Wolves. The 30 years that followed were sometimes eventful and regularly interesting. Needler’s natural character cut that of a benevolent and forward-thinking chairman, the type who would make the great Raich Carter the first player-manager of the type commonplace today and put his faith and confidence into the people who knew their job, offering Cliff Britton a ten-year contract to develop the club to the extent that it would be ready for the top flight of English football. He transferred £200,000 of his profits from sale of his construction company into the club in 1963 that funded a redevelopment of Boothferry Park and allowed Britton to purchase good players, most notably Ken Wagstaff. The ultimate ambition to reach the top tier didn’t quite happen, although the Tigers came mightily close in 1971 under youthful player-manager Terry Neill, one of many individuals associated with the Needler area that ferociously promote the man’s legacy to this day. Needler’s sudden death in the summer of 1975 heralded a decline in the club’s fortunes, with his unsympathetic, undynamic son Christopher taking over for two years and maintaining a notorious family stranglehold on the club for many dark years afterwards. It is testament to the impact and stature of Harold Needler that he is still referred to reverentially by those who worked with him and supported the club during his tenure, even though the surname dually represents, thanks to his son, periods of disappointment, greed and profligacy. http://www.ambernectar.org/blog/2011/03/the-soul-of-hull-city-part-six/
and: The Needlers – A Sweet Aftertaste? Why are we so ****? I used to ask myself that question when we finished every season 14th in the old Division 2. Those were the days – when we used to laugh at clubs like Stockport and Crewe, and when not even the anoraks had heard of Wimbledon. Times have changed at Boothferry Park. One of the best grounds in the country is now a dump, the team is truly a bag of ****e, a crowd of 6,000 is exceptional and the Dons are one of the top ten clubs in the league. So where has it all gone wrong? One thing is for sure, it’s not something that happened overnight. Younger fans may point to the memories of Fish, Dolan and Lloyd. But it goes much deeper than that. This club has been dying for the past thirty years, and, at the risk of upsetting a whole generation of supporters, much of the blame should be attached to Harold Needler. Old man Needler is often described as the father of Hull City, and of course in many respects he was. It was his vision that resurrected the pre-war Hull City Football Club and that built Boothferry Park. However, it should be remembered that it was the fans who provided most of the (unpaid) labour, and a Football Association loan that realised the capital. Once the ground was built, there then followed the so-called golden era of Hull City. Although there certainly wasn’t anything golden in the trophy cabinet. Older supporters still rave about the in Raich Carter’s day, but despite the phenomenal crowds that flocked to Boothferry Park, City never got within a sniff of top flight football. But the real opportunity, and why I believe Harold Needler is as culpable as anyone for the demise of Hull City, was in the mid-sixties. The City side that blew away the old Third Division in 1965-66 was a brilliant team, and one that should have gone all the way to the top. The fact that the board chose to finance ground improvements instead of releasing funds to buy some top class defenders meant that City missed out on their best chance of going up to the top division. Cliff Britton, the manager at the time, took a lot of stick for not strengthening the defence, but what could he do without any money? It was fully two years after the promotion campaign, with City in real danger of relegation, before Needler was persuaded to stump up some cash when Britton paid Millwall £18,000 for Tom Wilson. Wilson was one of City’s best ever defenders, and his signing demonstrates the type of quality player that the manager would have brought in if he had been given the chance. Unfortunately the Needler board were more intent on building a monument to their own short-sightedness than investing in a team to take City to the top. In defence of Needler of Harold Needler it could be argued that the only thing he was guilty of was lack of ambition. And there were many City fans at that time who were convinced that the club just didn’t want First Division football. Also, while there can be no question about Harold’s personal character, he palpably lacked football knowledge, and this was probably another contributory factor towards his failure to realise that a modest investment in two or three players could well have seen City promoted to the First Division. But Needler’s failure to back his manager is probably only the second worst mistake he ever made. His biggest error of judgement was the unforgivable sin of fathering the odious Christopher, the man who was to finally drive Hull City to the brink of self destruction. If the Tigers were just a hobby to Harold, then to Christopher they were a massive inconvenience. The man never had an ounce of affection for the club that daddy had built and he presided, mostly in absentia, over the fall and fall of the Tigers. The “Needler chequebook is closed” refrain was heard at Boothferry Park more often than “come on you ’ull”, yet the man, for reasons of his own, stubbornly refused to let anyone come in and take over the club. Until that is – a certain Southern tosser hove into view. With the club already on its knees, with its assets stripped and internally rotten to the core, Christopher finally took the money and ran – all the way to the South of France. The rest as they is history, and was probably inevitable. The club is in freefall, and we have only 20 games to save ourselves from the Conference, from where I am convinced we will never return. But things could have been so different if Harold Needler has grasped hold of the mettle in the mid-sixties and taken City to the top flight. Craig Ellyard http://www.ambernectar.org/blog/1998/12/the-needlers-a-sweet-aftertaste/
This thread gets better as there is some informative stuff coming to light and a few laughs along the way. But another bit of history if you like, I use to play football for Wheeler St School and because I was in the team I got a token to go and see Hull City for free, bit like the plastic bus tokens we use to get from school for free travel on the trolley buses. The school team would be announced on a Friday, which was when they handed out the tokens for Hull City's match, and you took the token back on the Monday morning, I can't remember if they handed out tokens for any mid week matches. But also back in those days, the large gates at the front of Boothferry Park would be opened just after half time so you could see at least the final half hour of the match for nothing.
I went to Wheeler,ref,before you though and to Hull Grammar from there. Fairly certain the Tiger Rag played was the Les Paul and Mary Ford version it`s on You Tube.
This thing could turn into a book! Add a few glossy pages with pictures and I'd buy it for sure, erm it was my idea and I might put up a few quid to sponsor it so I want a bit of cash if it's a best seller in Hull next christmas. What would you call it? How about "Hull City the complete history as seen by the fans"? Forward has already been written the damn thing is crying out for publication. I've been copy and pasting the info available on the internet on HCAFC's history for my own amusement, but the info is fairly sparse and there are huge gaps at certain periods. The main thing that concerns me is that many of the people who can fill a lot of those gaps might not be with us much longer, so I wondered whether we could have a permanent thread on here that shows the club's history. Such a thread could be constantly expanded with supporter's first hand memories until we have a really good document that all City supporters could read. What do you think? One season I would love to read more about is the one below: 1948–49 Promotion. Managed by former England international Horatio (Raich) Stratton Carter, City won the Division Three (North) highlighted by an attendance of 49,655 for their top of the table clash at home to Rotherham United on Christmas Day, was a Divisional record that still stands. 55,019 spectators packed into Boothferry Park to see Manchester United defeat the Tigers 1-0 in a closely fought cup battle
Without getting too deep into the murky world of Intellectual Property Rights John I think I could summarise by saying "keep yer mitts off!" However your kind offer of sponsorship for the future blog, web-site or possibly even a book would be warmly accepted.
My husband comments. " I played for Flinton Grove U.11's ( now called Foredyke Primary) and the school had a couple or so of free passes for home matches which, as above, were returned on Monday mornings.Used a pass for the 2 years I played there( 47/48 and 48/49). "At this time I recall "Tiger Rag" being played so this version could not have been the Les Paul/ Mary Ford recording as this was not recorded until 1952. At home my mum/dad had a large polished wood radiogram which in those days doubled as a piece of furniture. It was a lid-opening Marconi? model and we had the Mills Brothers version of Tiger Rag which I played incessantly at full volume when my parents were out driving the neighbours nuts!"
Shaggy Dog hairstyles, 18" flares, hippies, glam rock - oh yes, and Hull City's attack: [video=youtube;jBAn7-LafVU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBAn7-LafVU&feature=related [/video] [video=youtube;fmg_6ZkWLF0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmg_6ZkWLF0&feature=related [/video] [video=youtube;g5m7ZU8NP1k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5m7ZU8NP1k&feature=related [/video] [video=youtube;Cx7JNnicZB4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx7JNnicZB4&feature=related [/video] [video=youtube;fTyuifm7iyI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTyuifm7iyI&feature=related [/video] [video=youtube;4jcT_-9WSgA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jcT_-9WSgA&feature=related [/video] [video=youtube;Ndco-KT5Vmk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndco-KT5Vmk&feature=related [/video] [video=youtube;fJ_T6Njde70]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ_T6Njde70&feature=related [/video] [video=youtube;5OrP_NNEPFM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OrP_NNEPFM&feature=related [/video]
[video=youtube;aN1pUGtIo9c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN1pUGtIo9c[/video] another old video, this one is somewhat interesting as Coventry's centre forward was Chris Chilton, having finally got his wish to play in the 1st division. Coventry fans close to me were not very impressed calling him the best centre forward ... in the 3rd division.
Thanks to Pock tiger 64 for answering our request to posters to share memorabilia from their collections with the Tigernation. Below are items including the programmes from the two legendary games from the 48 - 49 season. Can anyone else beat that? please log in to view this image [/IMG] please log in to view this image [/IMG]
Craig, I think that the picture was how the ground would have looked eventually if all the plans had worked out, which of course they didn't. But have you noticed there are no floodlights at all but a super duper railway station.
Ah! I see what you mean now. So if the club had been a bit more wealthy over the years the KC would never have been built because we would still be in a revamped BP. The mind boggles!
Many many memories here i've tried to put alot of mine to video for you all to hopefully enjoy so i hope you've had fun watching them, i've had so many treasured times at Boothferry Park, the crowds, nearly being smashed in the face by the ball, listening on the other side of the door the night Horton was sacked, being told 'do i not like that' when Graham Taylor told me off when i butted in as a kid asking for his autogragh he was manager of Villa in 87 i think he was talking to his wife behind best stand, watching Sir Jeff Radcliffe's test and when waitin outside the spurs coach again asking for autographs this time Paul Walsh and Mitchell Thomas they said yeah they'll just put their bags inside, never saw them again! grrrr! being invited by Alex Dyer and Charlie Palmer into citys dressing room, Meeting all my idols including my all time favourite tiger Tony Norman. That Liverpool game in 1989, that stands out as my all time favourite game without a doubt, the sheer buzz around Boothferry Park was electric and to think when Keith Edwards scored eh? i own a few seats still as well as half of all the little number plaques which was next to the pegs in citys changing room, below is many photo's mostly which i've taken when i've gone to see the old ground, i've since took lots more its just the site needs updating. http://pete-06-.piczo.com/?g=38585736&cr=6
Great site BL. Tony Norman and Alex Dyer were two of my favourite players too along with Gareth Roberts, Billy Askew and most of the early to mid 80s lot. The Boothferry Park pics are sad to look at now and it's understandable considering the place developed a personality with City fans over the years. From Bunkers Hill being built using WW2 air raid rubble through all the good and bad times to end up as you have shown in those photos. There should really be some sort of memorial building on the site, because BP probably had more effect on the lives of people in Hull than places like Buckingham Palace. Anyway a question; Do you (or anyone else reading this) have a portrait picture of Keith Edwards in Hull City kit you can post it on here? The reason is that I'm putting together player profiles and the only pics I can find of KE on the net are of him wearing the Sheff U kit.
I have a mass of photo's large and small on my hardrive Craig but only these of Keith Edwards, don't know if any good but anyways please log in to view this image please log in to view this image please log in to view this image
