IIRC, I read a Liverpool document entitled Turning Supporters Into Customers, in the last few days. We've been down that road ourselves not so long ago. Ended in tears.
Ticket prices
- Thread starter Libby
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IIRC, I read a Liverpool document entitled Turning Supporters Into Customers, in the last few days. We've been down that road ourselves not so long ago. Ended in tears.
I have one. It's good value in as much as it moves me up the queue when getting tickets and I haven't missed a game that I wanted to see, (and could afford to go to) because of this.
It also allows me to pick where I sit, so long as I don't leave it too late, and I regularly get 1 of 3 different seats in the Kingsland, near the halfway line.
In a sense the £25 membership card moves you to the head a secondary queue, after the season ticket holders haven't bought extra. It's just another way of generating revenue out of a supporter base that doesn't have bottomless pockets. In no way do I hold SFC innocent of trying to drag extra money out of supporters. Granted, we're not Arsenal, who seem intent on wringing every last penny out of their fanbase, but neither are we Bayern Munich.
Why is it always the British who seem to be fleeced on a regular basis and who quietly put up with it while muttering under the breath? Tbh, Liverpool's supporters walk out was fairly low key. And it has been done before and nobody has batted an eyelid. Where it struck a chord at Anfield was that Sunderland fought back to draw and a few people suggested that Liverpool's morale dropped allowing Sunderland in. But otherwise, nobody made a real song and dance about it, yet really supporters across the country should be leaving the stands in droves and writing to those in charge demanding a huge reduction in prices.
How many games would it take for the PL to drop its prices alarmingly if nobody turned up? Sadly, very difficult to organise [although easier these days], and people are also selfish and of their own mind. They'd break ranks.
I bought one partly because we were in the EL at the time. If we got to the group stage I wanted some sort of priority.
I think members get priority before STH can buy an extra ticket....at least that was how it used to work. STH have priority buying their seats for cups.
My main reason for purchasing one too
It was worth it for me even though I've only used it for 2 competitive gamnes.Nail on the head there, almost empty grounds up n down the country would send a massive message but getting it done is another thing entirely, imagine asking Leicester fans to boycott one of their remaining games this season?
True. I seriously couldn't deny them that. Perhaps they could have a special exemption.? Everybody would understand.
We should get exception for us oldies as well....otherwise, the board will just think we are off to the loo.
And let's not forget last season you could pick where you sit without having to pay £25 for the privilege. Also getting a ticket for the big games wasn't a problem either. This year that has all changed because I didn't pay a quarter ton for a Membership Card. As a result I've been to less games. I can stream games at home for free if the cost is too high.
There is a very valid and important reason why all games aren't televised and that is because you would reduce lower league attendances if all the games were on TV. You could move PL to Sunday I suppose but then you are breaking a very old tradition there.
You may also see happen what happens in other countries where when every game is televised eventually stadium are half empty despite the lower prices in those countries.
Its all very well changing something and then after a year saying 'See there is no difference' but in a generation's time is when you can judge if attitudes changed. People will continue to go, but then say just this week i'll watch on TV and then a year later miss a few and a year later only attend half etc.
Prices should be lowered but be under no illusion it will be a club benefiting fans. It will be purely to do with how the club is perceived no matter how it is spun. West Ham tried to say they were going to offer lower priced tickets because they think about their fans but that was purely so they could fill their stadium.
Under no circumstances should Saturday 3pm kick offs be televised on UK channels. We can already watch them on streams and that has seen attendances for many small clubs drop in the last few years. Televising the 3pms would kill off a lot of the L1, L2 Conf cubs
How would that affect smaller lower league clubs with smaller attendances? Lincoln Prices are £18 for adults (£16 if you buy before match day.) With crowds of 2 - 3,000 they struggle to survive as it is. Reducing prices does not bring in that many more for smaller clubs.
In my original post I removed a whole section of how it might affect lower league teams. For example, let's take the 3 PL teams that get relegated in an era of low PL prices. Yes, they get massive parachute payments, but unless they behave sensibly and/or return to the PL quickly they may actually have to raise their ticket prices in the short to medium term while they adjust their costs. That wouldn't sit well with supporters. But I would suggest that prices are set by the PL and gratefully followed by the lower leagues because they need the income much more from tickets, which is the point you are making. The thing is, there is massive headroom for the PL to drop its ticket prices without squeezing the lower leagues. When we see Arsenal's pricing as high as £97.50 for a single ticket and Chelsea's cheapest at £59, there's room to manoeuvre. Leicester City's cheapest is £22. Not bad at all in the current era.
When we see surveys of the cost of watching football in the UK, no matter how rigorous it seems the survey is, there are always different costs within Europe. I would like to see one which takes two or three typical clubs, or maybe a truly representative average of a particular league, and tease out all the costs and revenue, right down to the rent and rates the average club has to pay because, on the surface it looks like the UK clubs, especially the PL ones, are making a small fortune out of their captive audience, who won't rock the boat because that would be disloyal. Well loyalty works both ways.
I see it as Human nature to say this is a Matsui. I am not paying a Sony price for it. This is a Kia I am not paying a Mercedes price for it.
I have heard many people for years, maybe more than a decade say things like (using today's prices) How much? For L2/Conf football. Why would anyone pay £16 to go and see perceived "****" football at Lincoln when many PL tickets are a tenner more and as you say with Leicester only a little more.
It isn't about the reality of the purists idea of quality. It doesn't matter that in reality there isn't that much difference in quality between a Pulis West Brom and a good conference football playing side bar the abilities of the players. Some good football played by many lower league clubs and as they are on a level playing field so to speak with the teams they are playing then it makes for a good game most of the time.
However get away from the purist idea most people take the Sony / Matsui or Kia/Mercedes scenario. If the PL tickets reduced to £20 lots more people would be assuming that the prices in lower league football should come down too. They would not pay the same or nearly the same for the tickets. When Lincoln get a big team in a cup (not happened for a while) but remembering back we had Sunderland, Everton, Palace a few years ago the part timers that suddenly fill the ground for the 'big game' are amazed at the ticket prices and their comments show that they think the club is taking advantage of the situation and raising the prices because they are playing a big team. The truth is the prices are the same but these people do not realise that.
Lower league clubs suffer more than higher attended clubs. The more money a club gets the lower the ratio of the actual overheads (not including player wages.) The maintenance, the energy costs, policing, staffing etc. all much a higher ratio of the take in money when you are getting 3,000 attendance which when concessions are taken into account will probably mean takings of £35-£40k for a match. Eastleigh are in the same league and their average is half Lincoln's.
It might be different for some clubs in the lower leagues that get much bigger attendances like we, Man City, Leeds did in L1 and The Sheffields and their like enjoy but for small clubs with just a few thousand it will be a killer.
If the PL tickets come down to £20, lower league attendances will fall just because people will perceive that they are being ripped off.
PL tickets do need to come down but at the same time the PL has got to start doing more for its pyramid as well. More money HAS to come back down the line. Forget football fans saying that footballerºs wages are crazy. One week of Wayne Rooneyºs wages would keep a club like Lincoln or Eastleigh alive for a year.
In my opinion, Lincoln City's £16-18 ticket price is way too much anyway. But it appears they need to charge it. The UK lower league ticket prices are higher than the Bundesliga, and Germany's lower leagues, and typically elsewhere in Europe. How about that? Why is that? It's why I'd like to see a survey on comparative costs between common leagues within Europe. Somebody is making a lot of money, and most supporters are being royally ripped off. Let's not cloud the issue too much with footballer's wages for now, that's a related but another obscene subject.
Back to PL ticket prices, IIRC around a 1000 of Borussia Dortmund's season ticket holders are British because they can fly into games from the UK and attend matches cheaper than rocking up to their local big club. So they've changed their allegiance through cost. How ridiculous is that?
Don't know if its been posted elsewhere, but Dortmund fans protested at prices of tickets yesterday, they threw tennis balls onto the pitch and entered the game late. Away tickets to the match cost £55. Apparently everyone thinks German football has pricing structured correctly, when basically standing tickets are the bulk of the cheap tickets which grab headlines. 'Normal' seats cost a lot.
This is the key. Everything in Britain costs money and nothing is as straightforward as it should be. There is a constant merry go round of people creating jobs for jobs sake and processes for those jobs. Health & Safety has become a business. Child protection has become a business. It would be very interesting to see just where a club like Eastleigh or Lincoln's money goes. Lincoln are still a full time professional club but that is with players earning £30k a year not a week.
How far down Germany's pyramid are there professional clubs? Is it 5 divisions like in England?
And on the Germany top league how can these clubs compete with PL clubs before this new TV deal. Smaller TV revenue, much much smaller matchday income yet they can attract the same players that our top clubs are paying mega contracts to. Where is their money coming from OR where is a lot of our clubs' money going to. There has to be more to this than simply club's greed (at all levels in England) There has to be a reason why Lincoln, Eastleigh, Tranmere Rovers have to charge more than Bayern Munich and Dortmund do.
Lincoln City is £18 on matchday (£16 before the day.) Tranmere is £17 Eastleigh is £12 (£15 on the day) Grimsby is the same as Lincoln. These are all English 5th division teams and all professional. I would bet a lot of the costs of lower league clubs is tied up in red tape, overheads and admin costs. Those being much more expensive than in other countries because of how much everything in the UK costs more especially.
When Lincoln were the first team to go down to the conference all those years ago the average was in the 6 to 7,000 region. Last Saturady we played Eastleigh who are in the top 3 and the attendance was only just over 2,000. That is partly due to the Rugby as the average is about 3½ this season however I would guarantee the advent of people being able to watch streams for free has impacted lower league football and televising live 3pm kick offs would impact it further.
Like you see it would be interesting to look at the accounts of these lower league clubs and see just where their costs are but gate receipts of £40k per game don't help and Eastleigh's will be much much lower than that. As it would be interesting to see just how German teams are competing whilst chargin 'so little'.
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