In my view it was impossible for Vettel to see what is going on two cars behind him. Niki Lauda slammed Brunno Senna (what a dumb move in his words) for the crash. My point was to say it was Vettels own fault is like saying it was Hamiltons own fault to "just be there" when Hülkenberg hit him.
When a top driver gets bogged down in the midfield it seems that we all (to a certain degree) justify that they have the right to take any corner in a manner they see fit, because they are a top driver in a top team. When the roles are reversed and it is a midfield driver/midfield team, we seem to argue that they need to give more room (because of the situation) and be aware of the people around them more! I think we are all hypocritical to a certain degree. I think we would be having an different discussion if Vettles car was replaced by Maldandos or Grosjeans! I'm not saying it is right or wrong, merely that we have seemed to have developed a preception that Top teams should be afforded more respect and space on the race track than lower teams?
Very different incidents, but your right that you can't blame Seb, but he definitely shuts the door probably because he didn't see him. I think this image shows it best, had vettel jinked right a little nothing would happened but he knew nothing about it, Senna really should have been more cautious on the first lap, but unlike spa 2011 for example is in control of the car, doesn't use Vettel as a brake and doesn't know that seb hasn't seen him. Both of them and neither of them to blame. Typical first lap midfield incident. please log in to view this image
This is it and it's very simple: the weak link is the car, not the driver. Vettel would not be WDC now if he had been driving that Ferrari, of that I am certain.
Have a look at this, at the start he is on the outside just like Alonso in front of him. Then notice how Alonso leaves space when he turns in just in case Hulkenburg goes to the inside. Compare that to Vettel who decides to turn in anyway, as if no-one is around him. please log in to view this image It's very unfair to blame Senna for that.
Easy. Hülkenberg was behind Alonso, so not a problem for Alonso to see. Very much different to Vettel and Senna. Senna was dive-bombing basically.
Vettel took the gamble to head for the apex in a crowded group. If everyone did that on the first lap rather than take a more cautious approach and just leave some room for 'just in case' it would be carnage, just as it was then. If Vettel had lost the WDC there and then he only had himself to blame. Bad start, then too aggressive in the pack. He should consider himself very lucky to have got away with two very hard clouts to his left rear.
Sennas view: [video=youtube;swCEGQ8tJAM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swCEGQ8tJAM[/video] Look at Vettel in the video. In no way he could see that dive-bomb coming.
Hmmm in all respect Seb probably didn't think anybody would try that kind of move from that kind of range, he was looking at Di Resta and Kimi by the looks of it, not Senna who looked too far back to make an overtake. But I agree Seb is not blameless, but I would still say Bruno was being a tad bit TOO eager to make places from that range with everybody to his right going wide, breaking at the same time as the rest and then lifting off the brake right into Seb's direction who was just turning in at the time etc... etc...
As most are saying, first lap racing incident. Maybe you can explain that to tomtom as a fellow Vetteller?
Alonso gave Hulkenberg, Vettel and Senna plenty of room, so the premise of the thread is therefore WRONG.
You want a Sgt's law? Any thread between now and the start of the season will eventuallt discuss Brazillian yellow flags (and not the type seen worn by dancers at the Rio carnival...........)
From that video, Senna only looks to overtake di Resta, which he did. As he said he made the apex, it was Vettel turning in too aggressively that did it. It's a racing incident cause Vettel probably wouldn't have seen Senna make the move on di Resta, but f there's any blame to be thrown around, it's got to go to Vettel. I think this incident explains why Alonso is so good in the first few corners. Not only does he get off the line well, but he leaves plenty of space for everyone and still manages to retain the positions he's gained. He's probably in the mindset of "threes a lot of young drivers around me, don't put any trust in any of them not to hit me". Since all he could do end of season was qualify 6th-10th he's always close to the inexperienced drivers
I'm inclined to agree with you here. I honestly think it was Vettel's fault having watched the accident again several times after the race. But lets be honest here, other than everyone having to defend their driver to the death and argue with everyone else does it really matter? It doesn't change the fact that Vettel is still a superb driver who made up for his mistake and drove up through the field fantastically to secure his 3rd WDC. This is coming from and Alonso fan here as well. I'm not saying you have to agree or anything like that, I don't think anyone is expecting things to be all nice and fun all the time, but it happened, the race is over. I don't think there is really a need to continue the discussion. I'd have to agree that Alonso seems to do a great job at leaving enough room around him whilst also maintaining and possibly furthering his position int he first couple of laps. That also comes from experience, I'm sure that Vettel will get better at that as well as the years go by. Also, this isn't my attempt to sit here and lecture people over the internet, I'm just sharing how I feel about it.
