Doesn't matter who they pick. England will never win in my lifetime. They'll wait until I die and then start winning everything.
I'm from Edge Hill originally but now live in West Cheshire not that scruffy East side of Cheshire phnar phnar.
Southgate says England will speak when appropriate. So what an absolute cop out. speak the truth when asked! H wans to get there without having to answer and then play the thing and when they come home without the trophy then they'll lay into the whole thing saying how bad it was. if its not right say it up front. same for rat face neville who was shown b someone on not the 9 o'clock news skirting round the fact he's going to take cash to go and is pretending to be going to speak out on wrongs on commentary etc. Same for salah going to do punditry on Bein sports. any way you cut it these gus are showing thier true colours. the sum total of some efforts are going to wear an armband as captain (which btw won't happen as they won't be allowed) not one single player talking about a protest of any type. not one single player refusing a call up. so next tie theres a campaign for diversity or equal rights etc the whole lot of them have zero right to pontificate like they are making a difference. the time is now, right now to refuse to go at all. Its pretty clear football is saying no place for LGBQ++ waffle round here. they are also saying killing workers is fine as well, swep the bodies out of the way and lets have a game eh?
Was never going to happen. But can you just imagine the statement it would have made if even 1 of the big teams had come out and say nope we aren’t going. Fifa would prob threaten them with bans but it would at least be a start. A bit like the super league, I’m sure once one team withdrew there would be more following suit so not to look the bad guy.
It'd show up FIFA though. let them threaten. the fact not one single solitary player was willing to "not go" say something imo. Stop pretending they care about causes. you've been shown up fully. do not dare go play, celebrate goals ,have a great time then come home and start bad mouthing. that's pure hypocrisy imo.
Bullshit. No player is going to do that, the World Cup is the pinnacle of their careers, few are lucky enough to play in one. Nor should it be up to the players to make the stance.
Players should be responsible for their own moral compass after all they were the ones who chose whether or not to take the knee. 'First they camefor the Socialists, and I did not speak out, Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out, Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.'
I tend to agree with you on most things, but I'm not sure on this one, but it's a debate, and we're all entitled to our opinions. Mine is that players can make a stand if they choose, they don't need to be led. To say it's the pinnacle of their careers is saying they're putting that career before the principles they generally claim to espouse (some of them), so the same could then be said of the various football associations - they all want to be part of the world's biggest football competition too. As I said on the LFC For Sale thread - we're all of us guilty of hypocrisy to some degree and I don't want to be all self-righteous about it, but it's the individual player's choice if he decides to go or not, they can't conveniently shift the blame onto others.
I'm just putting myself in their position. A life long dream to play in a world cup versus a moral stance that, in reality, won't really achieve anything. Rightly or wrongly (clearly wrongly), it'll all be forgotten about in 6wks time regardless of the actions you may or may not choose to take. I don't agree with the world cup being Qatar, and I haven't done from the very beginning, but it's too late to do anything now. And Qatar aren't going to change their ways because a few footballers didn't kick a ball, only way ther protest works is if ALL the footballers going to the world cup refuse to play and that's never going to happen. (Note what I was responding to too)
It might make them think twice before awarding it to another country with poor human rights record who will then make millions if not billions off hosting it while paying awful money to those to building the infrastructure to host said games.
Obviously. Now re-read what I said You need the majority of 832 players to take a stance (and give up their dream) for it to work
But like anything, it needs that first person to start it. The ESL quickly collapsed once one team pulled out. It’s all ifs and buts, but had England pulled out. Would then be asking other countries, well why haven’t you pulled out of you feel that strongly like England did? It’s the same with ticket prices. If one of the big clubs suddenly went, were going to charge £10 for all tickets for the foreseeable future, others would have to start following and has a knock on effect.
I go back to what Klopp said, the time to act was 12 years ago when it was awarded, if not then, there have been all the years in between then and now and nobody has said or done anything. It doesn't make it alright not to speak out now but why weren't those who are now calling out players and managers not calling out the football authorities long ago? Some of the players going to the WC would have been very small children and the rest would have still been at school at the time it was awarded. Maybe the adults in the room should have done something so they didn't have this moral dilemma now.
If they cared they would. thats the point. 32 team x 26 players = 832 players. now IMO of those at there has to be double digit number who might be gay. Perhaps not given how LGBTQ++ people are not welcomed but of that group a sizable amount must have a brother or sister or even cousin who are LGBTQ++ so again, not one single solitary one stood up and said no. that says to me exactly what you've highlighted. they don't care enoug. so my point stands. don't come pontificating after the fact how wrong it was to be there. don't be wearing shoelaces and armbands after pretending like that's support either in a world where a whitewash is going on, where people are saying sport brings people together, lets all go and enjoy sport and ingore al that... well thats excluding every single person thats LGBTQ++ cos they are not welcome there and there is no separating sport from venue. and thats just on that count. 6500 deaths... they don't care about that either.
We've discussed this before - the best time to act may have been then, but it wasn't the only time. Nothing was done then, but it could have been done since and still can be now. As you point out, some of the players would have been children at the time it was agreed, so couldn't do anything then - nothing's stopping them now. Something could be done right up until the last minute - the players could turn out at then sit down at the kick-off and refuse to participate, or any number of demonstrations of disapprobation. If they wanted to, and this is my point. As I've said, there are differing points of view, and I'm not saying mine is universally correct, but laying the blame on others in the past is a cheap get-out, if anyone wants to do something they still can. Klopp is a great guy and a decent human being, but it doesn't mean his every utterance is Gospel - I don't agree with him here.
True, nobody is forced to go. they are all walking past family, friend, fans or just whoever in the street and shrugging. If qatar said something about colour I wonder would this also go with shrug. the thing is: 2010 was a different time, its only 12 years but LGBTQ++ wouldn't even come into this thinking of host nations at all. think about it. 2018 world cup, not welcome at all. 2022, absolutely not welcome and will be arrested or perhaps put to death etc. its bad enough they awarded this corruptly and then promptly sat back and watch qatar build white elephant stadiums and hotels while enslaving workers and driving them to death.... not one word about that either. klopp is dead wrong. he just wants to protect managers and players but its a head in the sand attitude imo. southgate deflecting to get our of presser and get on the plane. I do not want to hear one word out of him when he gets back tail between legs. At that point is TOO LATE to have your little say.
You highlighted part of my post and addressed it by saying the same thing I'd said in the next part of my post. I'm not sure whether it's contradictory but I agree with what Klopp said from the pov of those actually involved in the game but will add from my perspective that I agree 100% with you about it never being too late to act.
