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Thoughts on today!!!(DELANEY OUT!!!)

Discussion in 'Ipswich Town' started by itfcptc, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. tractor bhoy

    tractor bhoy Well-Known Member

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    I agree JWM but he is only 1 player. If we had him in our team instead of Leadbitter or Bowyer for example then there is a strong chance we would still be in a similar position and a large percentage of fans would still be moaning about 'Dads Army'.
    Derry is a very competent player but he also has the legs of Faurlin and the skill of Tarrabt to fit around.
    Personally I think Hyam, if given the chance, or Bowyer could play the role just aswell but it doesnt help when 8 or 9 of your team mates are quite frankly useless and pathetic. The individual errors we are making currently couldnt be stopped even if we had Makelele in his prime infront of the back 4!!
     
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  2. johnnywarksmoustache

    johnnywarksmoustache Well-Known Member

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    Derry would be the midfield enforcer that we desperately needed and he is just one example of the type of quality that Keane wanted to sign. I am not standing up for Keane but it seemed to me that he was not being helped by Clegg's incompetence!
     
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  3. tractor bhoy

    tractor bhoy Well-Known Member

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    Possibly yes but he also sanctioned the signings of Leadbitter, Edwards, Martin and god knows how many other useless idiots to the tune of £15m or so. We also dont know any of the internal details of the deal. Would you give in to any players demands regardless just to get them here?
    I know Clegg isnt liked or appreciated by many outside the club itself but one of the view things we can accuse him/ ME of is not giving financial backing. We have spunked away millions since the takeover and if anything I wish we were more cautious not less!
     
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  4. johnnywarksmoustache

    johnnywarksmoustache Well-Known Member

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    Too cautious! Like Clegg not giving MaCauley the 3 year deal he wanted?
     
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  5. tractor bhoy

    tractor bhoy Well-Known Member

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    when we are in a situation like ours we can find fault in all decisions and that is what is happening currently. If I recall correctly at the time nobody thought McAuley was brilliant and we spent an awfully long time moaning about him. Its not the fact that he went that is the problem but we didnt sign an adequate replacement.
    If a player gets a long and half decent contract then flops the club is wrong. If we sign a player on a short contract and he is poached from us the club is wrong. You said earlier in the post that you are annoyed that we have another dozen players out of contract at the end of the season but arguably I imagine you also want 95% of these players gone as they are the ones currently not performing.
    We are currently just above diabolical but even you must see that you are currently asking for the club to do the impossible. You want us not to sign old players accept for the ones you think are good and it seems regardless of terms. You dont want us to run down contracts but you also dont want any of our players to still play for us.
    I know you love the club but it really does seem like you are letting passion overcome any rational judgement mate. The way your posts currently suggest your mood is we could sign Messi and it would only be done as a publicity stunt!
     
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  6. johnnywarksmoustache

    johnnywarksmoustache Well-Known Member

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    Letting players contracts run down to the point of them having no resale value is a scandal. Leadtwats £2.3 Million amongst them! He should be sold NOW so that at least we can get something for him! Maca was an able Defender and a lot better than what we currently have. Jewell has failed on every single measure and we are now in the mess because of his gross incompetence. You name me any other club that has such a high number of players on short term contracts, loans and contracts due to expire at the end of the season! These are hard facts not emotions!
     
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  7. tractor bhoy

    tractor bhoy Well-Known Member

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    Maca was an able defender and better than what we have now but whilst here most of us werent bothered about his eventual departure. IMO the club is at fault for not getting an adequate replacement not in their failure to keep MacAuley here and to be fair to the player if anybody gets offered a contract by a club in the premier league we are likely to lose them.
    Leadbitter is an interesting case and a prime example of the predicament for which I think you are being a bit harsh on the club.
    We signed him for £2m ish and he has never performed. If we offer and he accepts a new contract then we are stuck with him for another 2 years roughly. Thats fine if he can either do a job or we can recoup a fee by selling him but who in their right mind would pay for him?? He is abysmal therefore I think the best case scenario is for us to let his contract run out. We lose a bundle of money but its better than keeping him here.
    I also think it is only right that you offer players over the age of 32 short term deals as it is often the period when their legs can no longer keep up with any talent they may have up top.
    I would suggest that if our team had any players, whose contracts were running out that are worthy of a new contract then negotiations would already be in place.
    As I said earlier I think the club is in the most difficult position possible and the one thing that hasnt been mentioned in this particular set of posts is the fact that our wage bill is over 98% of our clubs income. We cant sustain that kind of outlay so although I agree with a lot of what you have said in these circumstances I would say get them out of the wage bill asap and free up some cash for some decent players.
    When we see our club on an even keel and once we have assembled a squad that is playing well as a unit then I will agree 100% with your post but at present I see the other option as being the best of two evils
     
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  8. johnnywarksmoustache

    johnnywarksmoustache Well-Known Member

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    It begs the question why did Jewell take a punt on all these OAPs to begin with knowing full well that they would all need replacing after just 1 season! I could understand it if he bought a few young uns and maybe a couple of experienced older heads but to pack our team full of 30 year old plus just defies all convention. Add to the mix the large number of loanees that have no allegiance to the Ipswich shirt and no wonder we are in this mess! No planning for the medium term and all just temporary fixes. How many years have we been crying out for a competent Right Back and yet he has persisted with Edwards who as we all know just isnt a full back. How many goals has he cost us during the season as just one small example? In this game like life in general you reap what you sow and now we are about to reap the whirlwind! The annoying and upsetting thing is that all of this could have been so easily avoided if he had made better signings in the summer.
     
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  9. San Diego

    San Diego Sir Mediator
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    The annoying and upsetting thing JWM is that our loan players actually performed and look to care more than the players we own. If it wasn't for Collins and Andrews we could really be in the ****. I'm not saying that's good because we shouldn't be relying on loan players to do the business for us. Even Murphy is putting in a better shift than some, and that's saying something.
     
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  10. johnnywarksmoustache

    johnnywarksmoustache Well-Known Member

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    Im not sure that Collins was any better than what we had after the first few games he played. He was god awful in a few of the home games Crystal Palace as one example.
     
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  11. San Diego

    San Diego Sir Mediator
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    But where would we be if he wasn't good for those first games? It's a very sad state of affairs that recently one of our midfielders have been leading the scoring charts (Norris, Andrews)
     
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  12. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    Tractorbhoy I have to disagree wiith you, on the whole yesterday I actually think most of the team bar Ingimarson and Delaney(who were atrocious) had a decent game. Leadbitter and Creswell weren't great but they did not have a poor performance.

    I thought the goood thing about playing JET in the centre was that he got plenty of the ball, which a player like him needs.

    And as for playing one upfront, I think it seemed to be working ok, JET was never really isolated upfront and there were always players in the box but the final cross was either poor or noone got on the end of it. I'm not a fan of usually playing one upfront but this to me wasn't the problem yesterday. I also don't think that the players really showed a lack of passion or effort yesterday, perhaps a lack of leadership but at the end of the day we lost because of an atrocious defensive display by our 2 CB's.

    Many people complain about Clegg but I don't think not getting Derry and failing to sign McAuley are his fault. I'm sure if Keane really wanted to keep McAuley he would have given him another contract.

    Indeed tractorbhoy, I do remember on the 606 sites being argued against including by you JWM that McAuley was an average defender and we should get rid. I think we can all see now who was the best defender in tthe CB partnership between him and Delaney(when many argued otherwise) and that he was infact one of the best CB's in the division in a very poor side. I could not see anything good coming out of not keeping him, we wouldn't have to spend probably quite a considerable amount of money and time getting in a replacement of equal quality, he could have been the continuity and stability in a defence which we have badly been lacking this season. I also think he would have been given back the captains armband and I think he would have been ready for it this time. If we would have given McAuley a contract I'm pretty sure we would more than likely be in the top half of the league.

    JWM you obviosly have passion for this club and do sometimes have some valid points but your post and arguments are rarely congruent and often contradictory and driven by impulse and are full of cliches. I specifically remember you saying you though McAuley should go and that the defenders we had such as Ingimarson, Delaney and Sonko were better defenders.

    I think the problem in the summer was we just needed players in and Jewell didn't want to perhaps gamble and spend alot of money on longterm targets when he hadn't assessed the situation or got a decent scouting network, so therefore got what he could in(proven quality) and on short term contracts, so if it doesn't work out then we are not burdened with these players. Unfortunately it hasn't worked very well. IMO I think in time Jewell will get it right, he knows that we can't continue to sign old players on short term contracts, but unless we get decent CB's in asap I am very concerned about this season.
     
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  13. Yellow Leadbitter

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    Cresswell didn't have his best game, shows good desire to get forward which shows as he is leading our assists tally, his crosses weren't too hot yesterday though unfortunately. He did get beaten a few times down the wing too.

    Martin impressed me with his running and attempts to beat players, never had a lot of options with him though.

    Leadbitter again, you say he wasn't poor, but that just isn't enough is it? Leadbitter would probably look okay in a team with two decent midfielders playing around him, he does the simple things, that's all. Just watched the goals back, Delaney screwed up for the 2nd but Leadbitter should have stopped the lad getting a shot off, taking a yellow for the team.

    It doesn't really feel like we are having full seasons to me, it feels like we spend all summer anticipating a new dawn, by January well, we are around 19th. Then we start again with a new transfer window, it is all so very disjointed.

    I've completely lost where I was going with this but anyway...With the Derry issue, might have worked, but in our team I doubt it would have made much difference. We needed someone like Moussi (I know we tried) or even better someone like Howson or Gunnarson who I am sure we could have prised from Coventry. With midfielders like those we would be much more solid - defence have confidence with what is in front of them, and the attack a solid base to push on from.
     
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  14. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I was actually fairly impressed by Martin, especially his workrate and involvment for a winger but as you say all to often our wingers especially in the first half weren't supported well particularly from he CM positions.

    I agree, yes Leadbitter wasn't good enough but he didn't do alot wrong.

    Looking back at the goals again, just look a the position Delaney takes, its ridiculous he just leaves his marker and just doesn't know when to sheperd a player rather than diving in with the tackle. Last season McAuley was always there to bail him out unfortunately we don't have a similar calibre of defender to help him out this season.
     
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