Not sure on the St Georges park thing. Coaches can do their training anywhere across the country tbh. And the training they do is the same as the Spanish or German coaches. All Uefa countries operate a standard coaching pathway now. My opinion is most coaches do their badges as a means to an end. They are honed by the environment they work in day in day out. So Pep, for example, is not an archetypal Spanish coach, he took so much from Cruyff and the dutch school. I can watch his Man City team now and see some very English traits too. He has the same qualifications as Dodds, for example. What I find most interesting about coaches these days is the ones doing well have often come through academy coaching backgrounds. Tuchel is a prime example. Folk often scoff at coaches from youth setups, but imo it is a much better breeding ground than being an ex player. Look at Lampard and Gerrard being boosted into top jobs quickly. They werent capable. In England our academy setup is regarded as the best in Europe. There are more and more coaches emerging from u19 and u21 to sitting on 1st team benches. Some are starting to get a chance. Over to them to take it. But if you look at someone like Chris Davies at Birmingham, he has passed through the Tottenham academy system and now is getting his chance. At some point Anthony Barry will too. Their experiences as coaches and from Tuchel etc, will be more important in their success than any training course they do.
I pretty much stopped reading after that. I really don't mind debate, but not when the opening line resorts to personal attack then what's the point. Remember, This is a forum where people have a load of different "Opinions" Lets keep the respect for people opinions. I disagree with a load I read on here...but would never as an opening gambit call someone deluded. Its MY opinion..feel free to disagree, I have no problem with that...just lets not resort to childish name calling
I'm sorry mate.... Please accept my apology. I used the word "deluded" as " being mistaken in belief" and I never meant to upset or insult you! It was certainly never meant to be a personal attack.
Southgate’s probable strength over Tuchel is his ability to maintain respectful relationships with most players. Tuchel has good coaching credibility but is known to be a bit marmite / spiky. Like anything only time will tell.
Ben White might disagree with you mind Some of Tuchel's ex players seem to absolutely love him, maybe marmite as you say. I think Kane at least will have been consulted before the appointment.
I personally don't. White's main gripe was with Steve Holland rather than Southgate himself from what I've read. Will be interesting to see if he comes back into the fold under Tuchel. White that is, not Holland!
I'm sure he got into management to one day manage Burnley and a struggling Everton. Absolute bollocks.
I think he divides opinion and wouldn't strongly disagree with anything you say. It was just hard to watch under him. Not all the time as there were times they were like you say massively stronger so they went out and dominated. I'm not calling Spain a failure really as I said I think he probably should have played certain players who were showing more as subs and deserved a start. But it was a final and he would have been criticised either way unless they won it. Spain were a better team om the night and throughout the tournament and I'd argue England were fortunate to even reach the final they were poor in that tournament imo. Italy on the other hand they started poorly and looked shell shocked. I am convinced a relentlessnattacke for another 15 - 20 minutes after that goal would have seen them put to the sword. Sitting back and being cautious allowed them to regroup. Still the better team on the night and with a couple things dropping our way instead of ours it could have easily been a Englad win. But it shouldn't have come to that. Like I said in my original post even if his way was get a goal sit back regroup and make sure not to concede for next half hour or so he should have been switched on enough to see the match was there to be won in the next 30 minutes and told the team to go for it! Again though all opinions and I always feel a bit of a twat slagging him when his record and how far he got them is actually top class!
I would ask folk who thought Southgate was a failure one question. Did he have the best sqaud? I think we over egg how good our players are. Spain are better imo. France are tooz although it is tight. On a world stage Argentina are better than us. My view anyway. Did Southgate over or underperform? I think it was about the limit of his squad. Many coaches in the past have achieved less than their squad was capable of. Tuchels job is to create a system that produces more than the players at his disposal. It is possible, more so in knock out games. It is a fraction of an improvement needed to win. But ai suggest if you want to watch free style gootball maybe it wont be for you. Tuchel isnt going to be in a world cup semi and go 1 up and go for hell for leathet for asecond. Not shoulr he really.
I'd say overall he overachived, given what England have done previously. The squad is as talented as any in the forward areas but lacks balance I think where he went wrong was in key moments against the elite nations where he struggled to change a game when things weren't going well I think in the last Euros he did what so many previous England managers have done and pick the big name players n try to fit them into a side - he didn't seem to do that previously I loved the Spain team that won the Euros, they picked a system then picked players to fit into that system rather than the other way around
I agree with a lot of what you say but have also seen (on YouTube) a video of young coaches at St Georges park on a 3 day course which was fundamentally extolling the virtues of defensive football with 2 holding midfielders and featured Gareth Southgate who gave a talk for about 30 minutes about how Italy should be the blueprint to achieve success as they adopted a defensive approach and had won world cup and Euros using this approach. whilst there are times for this I was amazed that for 3 days this course really did not delve into changing tactics and formations, or adapting to circumstance or opposition, but instead focused on not losing. I agree we have some very talented young coaches, I just feel that at times the FA can make them believe if things are not done the way they expect then you will not progress far, which to be honest was the underlying message from the hierarchy. As the trainer in the video stated this is the way we at the FA believe England will win the next tournament! this video was about 4 or 5 years ago have looked for it but cannot find it. They got close and fair play but all coaches need to be encouraged to find their way. Pep and Klopp took the best they could from each job and enhanced themselves and their teams in the process. I guess what I am saying is they need to be encouraged to find their own way and to be brave with choices and decisions. It does seem like that is happening and I do think in the next few years we will see some very very good UK coaches, I also believe that our coaches need to experience football in different countries to fully develop their styles (MB did this before becoming head coach but in truth I think he was a bad communicator and tried too hard to be the boss, maybe he was not suited to that amount of responsibility at that time and in truth needed another few seasons at QPR to really cement his style and authority within the game)
To be fair though, good coaches should understand how to play a more defensive game well. And playing that way doesn't make you a bad coach. The FA were.right to say that's the way to win a tournament, in my opinion. Obviously Italy have had success that way, all of the German teams that have won stuff have been built on a solid defence, Greece in 2004, Denmark in 1992, Argentina in 86, and even the more attacking teams, like Brazil in 2002 were built on a strong defence and were capable of shutting up shop.
There is nothing wrong with being able to play that way but you also need to be able to change as the need arises, look at England in the Euro final against Italy. Scored early and then tried to shut up shop for the rest of the game whilst Italy had two ageing centre half's on the pitch. Klopp or Pep would have went for the jugular and tried to score another 2 or 3 to seal the win Southgate tried to defend for 80 mins and eventually got beat. It is about the right tactics and the right mindset at the right time and making the most of the players you have available. England have some good defenders but maybe not world class, but we have an abundance of attacking talent who we were trying to get into a defensive shape and continued to do it. The Croatia game is another example of sticking rigidly to a game plan even when the opposition changed theirs. Southgate had a good team and rightly get plaudits for what he managed to achieve but IMO he was often found wanting in big games by sticking to a game plan which normally included 2 defensive midfielders. The best coaches see this in games and can adapt and react if required whilst the team is on the pitch and this happened to Southgate quite often but a lot of it was not noticed as he had some very talented forward thinking players and tactically against more inferior opposition would come out on top. I was not a fan of Southgate's tactics and made no attempt to hide that but I do believe that there has been a lot of influence to play this style of football, a style that Mike Dodds tried with our club as well as TM, when they inverted Trai Hume to become a second defensive midfielder when we were in possession at the start of last season.
I think he overachieved to be honest in his time in charge. We havent had the level of consistency in tournaments at any other time. He dealt with the nature of knock out football well and handled some difficult off the field stuff well. One of the things I think we overlook sometimes is how good the opposition are too. We see our own in the premier league and get told it is the best in the world. My own opinion is the premier league isnt the best in Europe let alone the world. Some England players perhaps arent mentally toughened because they play for Man City who are often 3 up and coasting. We also suffer from a lack of players playing in different countries. I look at the Spain squad and the France squad and just think they are better. Argentina in the last world cup and France were just better. I mean they have better players. The question as to whether Southgate could have changed things in the big games becomes interesting when you look at the opposition and understand they are also making changes and reacting. Sometimes coaching at the elite level is like a chess game, where each move you make is countered immediately. It therefore often comes down to players. Can they make the difference individually. Games with real jeopardy, like a world cup semi, often hinges on a piece of brilliance, or a mistake. For me Southgate created an optimum environment for the players. He gave them a structure in which to play that would ensure they were always in with a chance. A performance of the highest quality from one of our top players may then be the difference between winning and losing. You get 1 crack at it every 2 years, it makes it so hard to win a tournament. Tuchel seems a bit of a big game coach to me. He may be the one to find that extra 1 or 2% within a game that helps. It may still end up being down to another nation having better players though. I still look at Spains squad and would swap it for ours, France too. International football, at the sharp end of tournaments, is the best there is. I would love to see us win a big pot, hope he adds that extra ingredient we need.
Good luck to him. If he does as well as Southgate he'll be well regarded and seen as a great appointment! IMO, Southgate's best achievement was to get a cohesive, forward looking squad out of a team and squad that become a jaded joke. Players turned up reluctantly or not at all, saw the quarters as an achievement, and too often I thought they would rather not die on the pitch for each other. He put all that right. I thought he was too cautious in the very big games, particularly the 22 final, when I thought we should have won. But he improved us dramatically. If Tuchel does get to a final, or semi, his real talent should emerge, as he is extremely good at big games.
