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Thomas Frank & Johan Lange (& Fabio Paratici) Watch

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Dier Hard, Apr 19, 2021.

?

Your Preference For Ange’s Replacement

  1. Thomas Frank

  2. Andoni Iraola

  3. Simone Inzaghi

  4. Marco Silva

  5. Roberto Di Zerbi

  6. Other (state in comments)

  7. Oliver Glasner

  8. Xavi

  9. Mauricio Pochettino

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Chelsea have done pretty much all of the above but it didn't matter to their fans because they won trophies. They won trophies because they had better players because they had more money. Money matters a lot, everything else only a little.
     
    #6241
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  2. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    So maybe we should stop acting like Chelsea then?

    Not hiring their ex managers would be a sensible place to start.
     
    #6242
    Roo likes this.
  3. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that would be an ideal outcome. But without supernatural powers it is impossible to find such a person because managers who make a massive difference are very rare and give few clues in advance of how good they are going to be.
     
    #6243
  4. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter how we act in terms of manager appointments. Unless we get an outstanding one by luck we will finish on average between 5th and 6th until our income matches one of the top 3 (or someone else overtakes us).
    That's why I don't regard Levy's decisions on managers as incompetence...they simply don't make much difference. Similarly player trading.
     
    #6244
  5. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    When we initially canned Poch I said I wouldn’t want him back whilst any of his squad remained, four years later my view’s changed. I think he’s one of the best possible candidates for a role like ours (and Chelsea’s) and I also think that Kane and Son aside, he’d happily rid us of Dier, Sanchez, Sessegnon etc whilst giving Hugo a dignified exit.

    How we’ve managed to leave ourselves in a position of an interim likely replacing an interim whilst he’s been out of work for almost a season, with fans chanting for his name to then only see him end up at our second most hated rivals is something that genuinely dumbfounds me in a period where I seem to keep getting dumbfounded.

    We are an absolute ****ing shambles, a genuine laughing stock for the Premier League and Europe.
     
    #6245
  6. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Well our chairman not barging into the dressing room is a start of not acting like Chelsea

    Contrary to what Skyte Sports claimed yesterday...
     
    #6246

  7. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    I'm still against re-hiring him. Far too much sentimentality and emotion mixed in to the decision for my liking, clouding everyone's judgement. The other danger is Levy relaxing back into complacency, relying on the fact that we have a 'miracle worker' who - to quote Spurlock's analogy - can somehow clean the whole kitchen with an empty bottle of fairy liquid. I'm not sure he'd get the backing he needs.

    I also don't think he has (yet) answered some of the pretty fundamental questions that hovered over him during his time here.
    Does he know how to rebuild a team? Unclear.
    Does he know how to get his team over the line in cup competition? Unclear.
    Does he know how to work with the bigger egos in the dressing room? Unclear.
     
    #6247
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  8. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we should have sacked him but what he has done since doesn't really persuade me that he's someone who will really make a difference in the future. So I would now prefer someone who might such as Nagelsmann or even Mason (who is the closest candidate in terms of age and experience to managers like Busby, Shankly, Nicholson and Clough when they were first appointed).
     
    #6248
  9. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    After a performance like that, I'd want the chairman to make a rare appearance in the dressing room and actually take a stand.

    In any event, we can gladly print up an "I didn't Barge into the Dressing Room" certificate and Levy can hang it on his wall next to the certificates for

    Shiniest Stadium in the Whole Wide World
    First Retractable Pitch in Europe
    First Micro-Brewery in the UK
    Best Subterranean Go-Karting Experience
    Best Paid Chairman in England

    <ok>
     
    #6249
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  10. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    As opposed to the Subject of the ****tiest Takes on Football Twitter certificate our fanbase happily hand over to him regularly...?
     
    #6250
  11. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    There's no sentimentality clouding judgement for most here with regards to wanting Poch though, if anything it's the emotion for those that don't want him back that's clouding their judgement.

    We're in need of a progressive coach with a proven track record of being able to work within a budget, able to incorporate both youth and astute signings into a team as well as turning around the fortunes of some talents who've been stifled - that's basically his forte. The fact he's also proven in the Premier League with two different teams as well is another reason to boost his credentials.

    Along with Nagelsmann and Slot, he should've been one of the frontrunners for our role, the fact he wasn't even considered and is now on the verge of taking over Chelsea is just another sign of the incompetence from those sitting in our board room.
     
    #6251
  12. Solid Air 2

    Solid Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    unless you mean their first job that bit about Shanks is nonsense
    1949–1951 Carlisle United
    1951–1954 Grimsby Town
    1954–1955 Workington
    1956–1959 Huddersfield Town
    1959–1974 Liverpool

    edit : Clough also had 2 years of managerial experience prior to Derby
    cba to check the others
     
    #6252
  13. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Yes...I misremembered Shankly.
     
    #6253
  14. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    This is the bit that deeply concerns me. Poch didn't make any astute signings. He relied on Paul Mitchell (and to a lesser extent, David Pleat) for that. Same at Southampton.

    From Mitchell's departure onward, our recruitment was abysmal - driven by two factors: Poch's poor judgement in the market and Levy's unwillingness to spend enough to compensate for that poor judgement.

    I have always said I would only consider Poch's return if transfer strategy was in the hands of a DoF. I'd seen enough good signs from Paratici to hold out hope that he could work well with a coach like Poch, but with him out of the picture and a replacement not clear, it's too great a risk.

    Let's not forget: one of the most important contributing factors behind our terminal decline was Poch wasting the best part of £130m the summer before he was sacked. And yes, there is an argument that he deserved more time to integrate those three clowns into the team, but even on paper - he gladly went into that season with one senior striker, one senior RB, a defence at breaking point and did nothing to address any of those concerns.
     
    #6254
  15. Solid Air 2

    Solid Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    think Cloughs 2 years also means the experience comparison is flawed
     
    #6255
  16. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    Poch is a very good coach. I think there are question marks (at least in my mind) around his adaptability to the current meta of elite football, but he’s earned a chance at another top job in the PL based on his career so far. He did adapt over time at Spurs. I think his big downside is that he doesn’t stand out as someone who does a particularly job identifying players in the transfer market. I’ve always found that odd because he did do a good job with young players internally.

    How he would do at Chelsea, I don’t know. There aren’t as many massive personalities there as there have been in years gone by but there’s still a few. They need to trim the squad down but have a lot of expensive players on long contracts which means the coach is going to be expected to do a lot of work with what they have, which doesn’t necessarily scream a classic Poch job to me. He also benefits massively from having a transfer specialist alongside/above him but Chelsea’s approach to transfers under the new owner has been scattergun at best. That may change but it doesn’t look ideal right now.

    It’ll hurt to see him at Chelsea and hopefully it doesn’t work out.
     
    #6256
  17. Roo

    Roo Well-Known Member

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    we could finish 8th this season, not 5th or 6th. Therefore it does matter how we act in terms of managerial appointments, surely?
     
    #6257
  18. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    We're likely going to have a DoF by the beginning of the summer so I don't think whoever our manager will be will be making too many signings off their own accord, they'd need a say for sure but the DoF should be making those decisions.

    The 19/20 window is arguably Pochettino's biggest failure at the club, maybe those three would've come good under him if he'd have had more time but it was no doubt a catalyst to the decline we're now still in. Is that really enough to hold against Pochettino and the work he done in the previous five or so years though? I wouldn't say so. Even if there's other negatives both you and I could pick out from his previous tenure, there's about four or five times as many positives to outweigh them.

    Poch wouldn't also be rebuilding his old squad, for sure there's still some players that played under him that remain, some very briefly but all bar the obvious two would likely find themselves marginalised just as they were under previous managers. There's also some Paratici signings here that are in desperate need of a progressive coach like Poch/ Nagelsmann, I'd love to see players such as Reguilon/ Udogie, Romero, Porro, Bissouma, Kulusevski and Gil under someone who can play to their strengths, many of them are likely in similar scenarios the likes of Rose, Vertonghen, Walker, Dembele etc were in prior to his appointment.
     
    #6258
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  19. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I said on average. We are very consistently between 2nd and 7th over many seasons. Irrespective of manager, signings or anything else. Our average position is very close to our position in the wealth league, as it is for every other club. Man U probably slightly underperforming.
    You can explain just about every occurrence over the last 20 years in the PL by wealth with a small effect of luck. That tells me that most managers don't make much difference.
     
    #6259
  20. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    Stellini and all Conte’s staff are gone. Mason to the end of the season.

    What a mess this club is.
     
    #6260

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