Before all the sky money came into football, I don't think there was so much dissent, or could it be because of the cameras that view every angle, we are more aware of it nowadays?
Pre-Sky is mostly before my time unfortunately! It seems that the money brings additional pressure, which may influence people to do things for less sporting reasons. Whether that's the correct explanation or not, I don't know.
There's a bit of push back in the NHL but remember this is a spirt that allows you to punch an opponent repeatedly in the face. Interesting thing about all those sports you pulled up they all have rookie salary limits, still high but no team us paying a 20 year old millions. They also turn professional later.
Pampered twats shouting at refs should just be stamped out, there is no excuse. It might not be the games biggest problem, but lack of respect permeates many aspects of football and one could argue that simulation is a lack of respect for officials and opposition. I hate seeing players shout at the ref, it has increased over time,
JWM simply has no case. Just special pleading. It's not just on the field that the contrast is so stark either. The same disparity is apparent in the stands. The two rugby internationals last Saturday were gripping, hard-fought, passion-filled affairs played out in equally passionate atmospheres reflecting the great rivalry between each country's fans. But there was none of the foul-mouthed nastiness and incipient violence that so blights football. Rival supporters mingled together without crowd segregation or barriers and at the final whistle they all left togther without the visitors being kept back for their own safety. As for the old "middle class" chestnut, don't tell me that Rugby League is a middle-class sport played by guys from public schools and supported by folk from the Shires and stockbroker belt suburbs.
Sorry robbie but take it from someone who actually gets involved in a lot of grass roots football and not from what you see on MOTD every week! Dissent is not a major issue and in fact the RESPECT campaign has brought about improvements in overall player behaviour. The bigger issue is the play-acting and simulation that goes on and players get away with it every week without punishment at the elite levels of the game! Chico Flores for example is an absolute disgrace and should be banned for his constant play-acting. Getting another player sent off is far worse in my opinion than having a go at the referee and a clampdown on players waiving imaginary cards should not go unpunished. As regards to Rugby I find it difficult to accept your arguement when it appears to be perfectly acceptable for there to be punch ups during the game!
The plea that it isn't broken seems a little odd. Many folk complain about players confronting referees, and watching semi profesisonal games and kids games, there is more remonstrating that there used to bem and it is hard to imagine that observing dissent from top players will not have a trickle down effect. Very hard to see how the game would not be improved by trying to reduce it- rather than book players, move the free kick 10 yards forward. Shouting abuse for not getting a corner is child like behaviour, why would anyone want to see it.
Longsight - The 10 yard advance law was trialed in football but it doesnt work because football is not a territorial game in the same way as Rugby is! Sometimes you can put a team at a disadvantage if you move the kick 10 yards further forward.
Sorry JWM but I'm not buying what your peddling at all. From youth football upwards, the game and the nation could benefit by actually stopping players from running there mouths off and generally being disrespectful to those in authority. I played football in 4 different counties over about 20 years. The standard and approach of refereeing was hugely variable, but the one constant was that little was done about the mouthy tw#ts who tried to rule by intimidation and overly physical play. Kids need to have it rammed down their throats that foul play and abuse will not be welcomed or even tolerated. I realise that it should be parents who should give their kids some sort of moral compass, but that does not excuse poor behavior on the pitch when there is a referee there to enforce it. Saying it would take away passion is complete boll#x too. I played a number of years in discomfort due to injuries but played on because I love the game. Now me an my team mates generally would not berate the ref, but sometimes you have to play to the ref your given. If he is flimsy and seemingly easily bullied into decisions and the oppo are getting away with murder then you have to play him too. Wouldn't it be easier if refs protected themselves with a no nonsense chat before kick off? Any swearing or angry shouting at me and you'll be for an early bath! So if the ref has given firm instructions and has previous on following them up you play by the rules or take the ensuing fine and ban. This particular ref in colchester would not tolerate profanity or blasphemy. And you know what, barring the odd insult behind his back, virtually all teams behaved allot better than we had seen them on other occasions. I think it is the Chavtown in you JWM that equates; surley, aggressive and unpleasant behavior to passion! (Then it probably is much less of a problem in Cambridge) Just answer me this (And this would apply to diving too); If a manager knows a player will definitely get carded for dissent or even sent off, and he has a gobshite player (or diver) who likes to have a pop at refs. a]Will he tell him to calm it down to prevent his team going down to 10 men (even practice the same ethos in training)? (I'd like to think his team mates might also try to keep him in check too) b] do nothing, its a stupid rule and finish most matches with 7-10 men? c] try a] and if the player can't behave, drop him? As a consequence of c] the player then is not offered an improved contract or is asked to leave the club and also has to pay out a number of disaplinary fines along the way. Will this player; d] learn and correct his errant ways? e] bomb his way out of football because he is to stupid/angry/cheaty to stop trying to swear/intimidate/dive his way through games? Passion is fine, but mouthing off is disrespectful and unnecessary! Bah!
He could keep an argument going forever in an empty room (Or the Ipswich board which is pretty much the same thing!) Bah!
Fine words Melchie but what you are describing is a Utopia that will never be achieved and what you are describing falls into a wider debate on society in general.
Question for you JWM. Are there many female refs in grass roots football, and if so, do they get treated with more respect by the players, or do they treat them as a 'man', and still argue?
To be honest mate there are none in any of the leagues that I officate in but I have to say that Sian Massey is one of THE best officials in the game and she will make a fine referee one day.
I'm not sure it equates to utopia, but surely any attempt just to prevent the current slide would have to be a positive step. In my book where better to start than an aspirational arena. A large proportion of kids want to play footy, be part odf a team. Even the most disruptive of kids may want to join in with his mates and play football. If not only the ref, but the manager and his team mates say not with that attitude, then behavior would improve. That or in our non-utopian world he will bugger off to learn the fine arts of fleecing the system, the rest of us and how to demolish bottles of cheap cider. Bah!
There is no current slide as you put it! I have already said that the RESPECT Campaign is working well and players are responding to it. The big problem these days is the Kids football and the mouthy beligerent parents on the touchline! Ban all parents from watching their kids playing will be draconian but will definately solve the problem. I have had nmore aggro from Parent spectators than I have ever had to deal with from the players. If the parents cant behave themselves then they should be banned.
I'd love to know why he thinks the "respect" campaign is working! I love football and watch as much as I can and I've seen no evidence whatsoever of any form of respect being shown to any official! Of course, the campaign is not helped by the total ineptitude of the majority of referees!
