The way forward

[Dier Hard]

This squad will finish where it deserves to.

I see it’s more or less the same people that were telling me the trophies were going to come year 5 of Poch’s dynasty are the same ones who are saying these players are still good enough to achieve more than the hit and miss performances we get.

I refuse to allow the same set of fans to set the next agenda like it’s only their club and we have some sort of strong tradition that is being blasphemed against.

There’s no Tottenham way without anyone harping back to the 60’s. 70’s we were ****, 80’s was our most successful decade in the modern world and then after that it was as depressing as Ive heard most of you when you reminisce about it.

We got a bit of joy from Jol and everyone thinks it’s some kind of Tottenham way. What’s the Brighton way? What we see now or what they were in the lower leagues for decades?

There’s an agenda at work here and it’s clear as day when folk think the bulk of this squad is fine and it’s just the management. Sorry guise I’m not up for you all deciding that we need another 5 year project to begin so that most of you can say it will end in Utopia but when we get to the 4/5 year stage everyone ****s the bed and can’t backup their earlier claims or admit they got it wrong.

No more 5 year projects with our heads in the clouds about how great we really are bar the odd missing ingredient.

I don’t get the logic that a new manager solves everything. He will get the typical new manager bounce then the players will hit their talent ceiling again.
Changing a manager to one who knocks it about a little bit more but we still **** up at the same junctures is not a step forward.

I definitely agree the squad is poor and it’s the common denominator but it does also need pointing out that Mourinho has overseen 9 of his own signings and he’s not managed to improve Spurs one iota. We’re as bad as we were when he took over 15 months ago. How much longer do you give someone that isn’t showing they can take us forward?

He’s not currently warranting his £280k a week salary. So I think the reason why some are now against the manager is that if he’s being paid a small fortune and can’t even improve us marginally, what’s the point in having him at all?

The likelihood is we’re gonna need another project, whether anyone likes it or not. Someone who can come in, bin the deadwood, bring through some youth and ideally work with a proper DoF to target the right players for their style and philosophy and get some good money’s worth out them. Hitchen has failed and Jose is failing.

 

[Spurlock]

I definitely agree the squad is poor and it’s the common denominator but it does also need pointing out that Mourinho has overseen 9 of his own signings and he’s not managed to improve Spurs one iota. We’re as bad as we were when he took over 15 months ago. How much longer do you give someone that isn’t showing they can take us forward?

He’s not currently warranting his £280k a week salary. So I think the reason why some are now against the manager is that if he’s being paid a small fortune and can’t even improve us marginally, what’s the point in having him at all?

The likelihood is we’re gonna need another project, whether anyone likes it or not. Someone who can come in, bin the deadwood, bring through some youth and ideally work with a proper DoF to target the right players for their style and philosophy and get some good money’s worth out them. Hitchen has failed and Jose is failing.

seems like a rinse and repeat to me DH

nothing will change unless the ambitions of our owners change. In the meantime I have to stay grounded instead of once again happily backing someone with another 5 years of my life when I know full well if I take the blinkers off we won’t be getting anywhere interesting.

like I said a bit more pleasing to the eye football is not enough...it’s not.

 

[Dier Hard]

seems like a rinse and repeat to me DH

nothing will change unless the ambitions of our owners change. In the meantime I have to stay grounded instead of once again happily backing someone with another 5 years of my life when I know full well if I take the blinkers off we won’t be getting anywhere interesting.

like I said a bit more pleasing to the eye football is not enough...it’s not.

Pleasing on the eye football is still better than what we have right now to be fair though mate, so if we have to take baby steps I'll take it.

As for the owners, I think they have a good amount of ambition, the problem though is that especially in the last few years they've made far too many mistakes, as has the manager(s). But even in these last few years, they've hired Jose on one of the biggest contracts in the game, they brought back Bale, they signed Ndombele and Lo Celso for a combined £100m+... So I don't think they're lacking ambition, they just seem to lack the intelligence at times on what decisions need making and a lot of that could be rectified with taking Levy out of the footballing decisions and hiring a good DoF and sacking Hitchen to get our recruitment back on track. Small altered decisions could've done us the world of good, for instance if we chose Bruno over Lo Celso we'd likely be one or two positions higher in the table right now, the fees involving both players is quite similar so it's not like we weren't willing to splash the cash, we just splashed that cash poorly. There's been quite a few cases of that too.

I think we're gonna have to accept that we've gotta take a couple steps back to begin moving forward again. Start with binning a bunch of dross, hiring a good DoF and probably hiring a manager who's capable of a rebuild.

 

[Spurf]

I'm simply looking at the way the chairmen of vastly more successful clubs than us conduct themselves, and it is vastly different to our own. I'm not suggesting Levy becomes a cold distant bastard, but there is a happy medium between that and the players thinking they can chat multi million pound decisions with you over a croissant, or sitting down with you for a little 'pep talk' about your future.

I don't think the way he came across in the documentary is healthy, not least because my gut tells me Levy does a lot of what he does because deep down he is just like any of us - a fan fulfilling a childhood dream. Do players or staff have a healthy dose of professional fear for him? Do they feel the grip of accountability around their necks when performances are poor? Or do they see Levy as a kindly old uncle who they can pop into for a chat at any moment?

Gianluca Vialli the son of a millionaire during his time as Chelsea manager was the first in football (I think) to say how hard it was to motivate millionaires. Your talk of aloof chairman belongs to a different age, a time when footballers often earned less than the fans in the stadium. A time when losing their job would be critical to them and their families that bears no comparison to today's players earning millions a year. Literally the only threat is that you will leave them on the bench and not play them. You can't sack them and if they earn too much you can't even sell them. We have the example of Bale. He has achieved everything he might have dreamt of in football, he has enough money never to have to think about it again. He has spent two years sitting on a bench and collecting his 1/2 million a week for doing it, that's some compensation for living in sunny Spain in a fantastic villa and playing golf with your mates. When Bale came back to Tottenham it was not for the money or even the football it was for the adulation that he had not received for some time in Spain. I am surprised that Jose has not picked up on that and realised he had to find some mechanism to compensate Bale for the lack of fans in the stadiums. That would have been at the very least a run in the big games in the PL not bit parts playing obscure teams in Europe. If he had done that we might have already seen what we glimpsed against City. The high handed chairmen carries no weight amongst these rich athletes at all. The problem with Levy is as you say that he is like us a fan but the difference is he has the power to influence but no more knowledge of the game than most of us. We can pontificate all we like and it makes little or no difference to Spurs if Levy does it major changes occur. He realises this because he has tried at various times to employ a football director but in the absence of that showing a smiling face to his extremely expensive assets is perhaps his only strategy.[/QUOTE]

 

[Citizen Kane.]

A word of caution for those clamouring for Hassenhutl: Soton have just lost their 6th game on the trot, making it 1 win in 11 games with just 6 goals scored. They have totally collapsed after a bright start.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Gianluca Vialli the son of a millionaire during his time as Chelsea manager was the first in football (I think) to say how hard it was to motivate millionaires. Your talk of aloof chairman belongs to a different age, a time when footballers often earned less than the fans in the stadium. A time when losing their job would be critical to them and their families that bears no comparison to today's players earning millions a year. Literally the only threat is that you will leave them on the bench and not play them. You can't sack them and if they earn too much you can't even sell them. We have the example of Bale. He has achieved everything he might have dreamt of in football, he has enough money never to have to think about it again. He has spent two years sitting on a bench and collecting his 1/2 million a week for doing it, that's some compensation for living in sunny Spain in a fantastic villa and playing golf with your mates. When Bale came back to Tottenham it was not for the money or even the football it was for the adulation that he had not received for some time in Spain. I am surprised that Jose has not picked up on that and realised he had to find some mechanism to compensate Bale for the lack of fans in the stadiums. That would have been at the very least a run in the big games in the PL not bit parts playing obscure teams in Europe. If he had done that we might have already seen what we glimpsed against City. The high handed chairmen carries no weight amongst these rich athletes at all. The problem with Levy is as you say that he is like us a fan but the difference is he has the power to influence but no more knowledge of the game than most of us. We can pontificate all we like and it makes little or no difference to Spurs if Levy does it major changes occur. He realises this because he has tried at various times to employ a football director but in the absence of that showing a smiling face to his extremely expensive assets is perhaps his only strategy.

It's quite easy to motivate millionaires

Simply say that they have to pay tax for a change and look how motivated they get

 

[Spurlock]

Pleasing on the eye football is still better than what we have right now to be fair though mate, so if we have to take baby steps I'll take it.

As for the owners, I think they have a good amount of ambition, the problem though is that especially in the last few years they've made far too many mistakes, as has the manager(s). But even in these last few years, they've hired Jose on one of the biggest contracts in the game, they brought back Bale, they signed Ndombele and Lo Celso for a combined £100m+... So I don't think they're lacking ambition, they just seem to lack the intelligence at times on what decisions need making and a lot of that could be rectified with taking Levy out of the footballing decisions and hiring a good DoF and sacking Hitchen to get our recruitment back on track. Small altered decisions could've done us the world of good, for instance if we chose Bruno over Lo Celso we'd likely be one or two positions higher in the table right now, the fees involving both players is quite similar so it's not like we weren't willing to splash the cash, we just splashed that cash poorly. There's been quite a few cases of that too.

I think we're gonna have to accept that we've gotta take a couple steps back to begin moving forward again.

We were supposed to be taking the baby steps in 2016/17...leading to something greater but seems like that big idea has withered away and now we want another massive project. I’ve got no choice since it’s the club I follow but I’m not just going to sit here nodding my head when a certain percentage of the fan base seems obsessed with starting projects which never reach a proper end game. It can’t keep on happening without serious accountability

For me always looking at the manager is the easiest kop out. I wasn’t massive on Poch out where I got passionate about it but I know when something needs changing. It’s only a matter of time when our latest manager gets replaced, I can live with that.

What I have a problem with is the same set of fans(usually) getting excited and optimistic again about another project then come year 4/5 and it’s a bit stale again they start looking for other projects...rinse/repeat.

ENIC might have ambition but it’s not enough ambition to get to the next level. It’s no coincidence we are stuck at this level, it’s because the next level requires bravery and balls. ENIC lack both unless they are guaranteed a return in their investments...and that’s not exactly how it works.

 

[Spurlock]

A word of caution for those clamouring for Hassenhutl: Soton have just lost their 6th game on the trot, making it 1 win in 11 games with just 6 goals scored. They have totally collapsed after a bright start.

his teams knock it about

that’s all that counts

get him in

 

[Dier Hard]

A word of caution for those clamouring for Hassenhutl: Soton have just lost their 6th game on the trot, making it 1 win in 11 games with just 6 goals scored. They have totally collapsed after a bright start.

I'm on the Potter train should Jose get sacked. There's something about the guy that just makes me think "he could do well at a bigger club".

 

[Spurf]

[QUOTE="humanbeingincroydon, post: 14619677, member: 1009071"
It's quite easy to motivate millionaires

Simply say that they have to pay tax for a change and look how motivated they get[/QUOTE]


Levy is good but he does not control the tax system. If you think charging millionaires more tax is an easy option then you are not living in the real world. The millionaires run the tax system for a start. Changing tax laws in favour of the majority is far harder than managing a football team.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Levy is good but he does not control the tax system. If you think charging millionaires more tax is an easy option then you are not living in the real world. The millionaires run the tax system for a start. Changing tax laws in favour of the majority is far harder than managing a football team.

I didn't say charge them more tax, I said make sure they actually pay tax

 

[Spurf]

I'm on the Potter train should Jose get sacked. There's something about the guy that just makes me think "he could do well at a bigger club".

You think he's a wizard? I think that's a different Potter

 

[Spurf]

I didn't say charge them more tax, I said make sure they actually pay tax

They have millions human, that means they can pay lots to clever people who will organise their finances for them.

Motivating millionaires and controlling them is VERY difficult and emphasizes Vialli's point.

 

[Dier Hard]

We were supposed to be taking the baby steps in 2016/17...leading to something greater but seems like that big idea has withered away and now we want another massive project. I’ve got no choice since it’s the club I follow but I’m not just going to sit here nodding my head when a certain percentage of the fan base seems obsessed with starting projects which never reach a proper end game. It can’t keep on happening without serious accountability

For me always looking at the manager is the easiest kop out. I wasn’t massive on Poch out where I got passionate about it but I know when something needs changing. It’s only a matter of time when our latest manager gets replaced, I can live with that.

What I have a problem with is the same set of fans(usually) getting excited and optimistic again about another project then come year 4/5 and it’s a bit stale again they start looking for other projects...rinse/repeat.

ENIC might have ambition but it’s not enough ambition to get to the next level. It’s no coincidence we are stuck at this level, it’s because the next level requires bravery and balls. ENIC lack both unless they are guaranteed a return in their investments...and that’s not exactly how it works.

We came very close under Poch though, very close. It's not like we massively failed under him, we just couldn't make that final step and sometimes that was because the manager himself making some bizarre decisions in finals/ semi finals. Poch done phenomenal for the most part but did mess up at crucial times. The project was largely a successful one because if anything we exceeded initial expectations, we ended up being disappointed at missing out on league titles when the initial aim was to simply become a top four club, having been a pretender for so long barring one season under Redknapp. The hope for me is that a new project could potentially lead to eventual success of some sort, you need that hope otherwise it's all pointless. It is disappointing that we didn't take that "next step" but it's not impossible to ever get back to that and beyond, though it does mean having to essentially hit the restart button.

As for ENIC/ Levy, I guess it depends on how you determine what bravery and balls are. I think they've shown a good amount of ambition, though, as I've already said, they've just made a number of poor decisions of late that have perhaps made it look like they lack ambition. It's a crucial period coming up for them though, they can't afford to make many poor decisions that's for sure.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

They have millions human, that means they can pay lots to clever people who will organise their finances for them.

Motivating millionaires and controlling them is VERY difficult and emphasizes Vialli's point.

And that's the point: the thought of somebody getting their hands on THEIR money sure as hell motivates them

I should know, I've had to answer the phone in the office to a certain former Arsenal defender/current football pundit who was having great difficulty comprehending the fact that the HMRC knew all about their excessive tax dodging schemes and were coming for him with all guns blazing

Coincidentally, you could tell when his fines were going up as he was always nice about Spurs in his punditry...

 

[Spurf]

And that's the point: the thought of somebody getting their hands on THEIR money sure as hell motivates them

I should know, I've had to answer the phone in the office to a certain former Arsenal defender/current football pundit who was having great difficulty comprehending the fact that the HMRC knew all about their excessive tax dodging schemes and were coming for him with all guns blazing

Coincidentally, you could tell when his fines were going up as he was always nice about Spurs in his punditry...

Hah! so you come clean now. You are helping a tax dodging Arsenal player to avoid the taxman. Call yourself a human being!

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Hah! so you come clean now. You are helping a tax dodging Arsenal player to avoid the taxman. Call yourself a human being!

Nope, the HMRC already had him, he was trying to get of paying as much of the £6m+ he owed as possible

Let's just say he ended up having to pay the vast majority of that, because he was involved in so many schemes it became impossible to drill down the bill too much

 

[Libby]

Yes I thought the same as you at the time. I had been going on about Redknapp and his mouth for a long time. There were many aspects I didn't like and probably still wouldn't but Harry has proved over and over again is that he knows how to sort a misfiring team out. He's done it. at Portsmouth (twice) Southampton, West Ham and Spurs. He is not going to be long term but sorting out the current team would prove that we have a decent squad for the next permanent manager to take over.

How exactly did he sort us out?

 

[Spurf]

How exactly did he sort us out?

When Redknapp succeeded Juande Ramos in October 2008 Spurs were four points adrift at the bottom of the Premier League after taking only two points from eight matches. In May 2010 they were in the Champions League for the first time in their history.
Where were you?

 

[Libby]

When Redknapp succeeded Juande Ramos in October 2008 Spurs were four points adrift at the bottom of the Premier League after taking only two points from eight matches. In May 2010 they were in the Champions League for the first time in their history.
Where were you?

Supporting Southampton.

You've included us in your list of misfiring teams that he sorted out. As far as I recall we finished bottom of the league.