Off Topic The trial of Ben Butler and Jennie Gray

Oh I know...and I understand all the arguments against it and accept because most people believe in them it'll never happen.

And the reason I gave is the only one I would use to put forward that solution. As has been said..revenge or punishment is pointless when it comes to a multiple killer; killing them doesn't bring back the victims etc.

I just don't want resources wasted on keeping them alive in relative comfort....spend it on housing a homeless person or something....

 

Like that Norwegian freak. Sucking up money in cases about his rights and such.

 

Yes I hear you and thanks

Its undoubtedly because I have a young daughter that its got to me.

I feel really bad for the grandfather as well, losing Ellie which mustve broke them, spending all the money trying to fight it and then not only losing his wife but she never saw them sentenced

I know a lot of bad stuff happens all the time and realise im not the only one with/had a young child but this just got to me

 

When you get more prison time nowadays for being a simple hacker than a pheodophile, sorry that sums up the legal system, a total ****ing farce!!!!

 

Oh you're right, saint, but how long have we been trying?

 

We'll have to keep on trying, frustrating though it is, for what alternative is there?
Punishing them after the event is justice, but it's too late - it doesn't undo the crime or stop similar ones being committed by other lunatics.
Prevention is obviously preferable, but it isn't always easy.
As I said, in this case I feel it could, and should, have been prevented. There were enough warning signs.

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've said that in cases involving young children

 

You would hope that once he gets inside he will soon realise what a small little man he really is. They do not like people who kill kids in prison.

As for the Judge, unfortunately Judges have to have immunity from their decisions otherwise governments could overrule and remove them if they did not like their political views, especially if it went against an extreme left/right wing government. It is very difficult to remove a High Court Judge once they are in position in order to protect our basic rights.

They can be removed for committing a criminal offence, I think one was chopped for beating his wife and another couple of Deputy Judges for watching porn on court issued IT.

 

Yeah...think the problem is that Judges through necessity live very enclosed lives from the rest of us...they get to bet on an individuals better side because they'll be very be at risk from the wrong decision.

 

There will be a serious case review (if there hasn't been one done already) which is kind of statutory after the death of a child under such circumstances.

I haven't followed it intently but from what I've heard, he had his sentence quashed and as a result of his "exonneration" he got a court order to say that the previous incident could not be mentioned in any future incidents. Information sharing is THE most important part in preventing any potential child abuse. Even after his release, something somewhere along the line of agencies broke down.

Look, I have half a dozen Child Protection cases which are similar. I have what are called Core Group meetings and CP conferences where all safeguarding professionals meet regularly to discuss the potential risks and well-being of the child in question. It's frustrating at times, you sit opposite individuals you know are total scumbags but have either served their time and we're moving forward, or they are just under the level of any prosecution - I'm talking wife-beaters, child-abusers, *****philes, single parent druggies who neglect their children, potential sexual exploitation and I can tell you that every effort is made to protect the child, but there's a fine line between proving someone is guilty of something and finding that individual is within the law and all you can do is put in place the best safeguards you can given the circumstances to try and protect the child. The two most powerful pieces of evidence you can have is 1) bruises and 2) the child telling you they've been abused. The trouble is in a lot of cases even that is not enough. But here's the thing, these ****ers are brilliant at cajolling children to protect themselves. You have ONE incident where social workers and police are called in, you find in future those parents put pressure on their child (brainwash them or subdue them) so they never disclose anything again. It's frustrating to say the least.

But the other thing is that children's services are creaking under the pressure and workload. Part of the problem is that the systems are full of processes and procedures that I've just stated above and it's a firefighting exercise. Anyway, I've gone on, but it is without doubt the most laborious and least rewarding part of my job.

 

****ing horrible. Special mention goes to Liam Fee's lesbian mothers too. Absolute scum of the earth the lot of them.

 

The media's obsession that they were both lesbians has not got anything to do with the kid dying was due to them being a pair of s***s, nothing to do with their sexuality

 

He was handed all the power with the ruling in 2012, the council social services said that she shouldnt go back with them but Hogg got rid of them and got a private organisation in
Ellie knew, the grandparents and their other daughter and son knew they were evil scum. Ellie's Aunt said she used to get in bed with them terrified she'd be taken away and hid under the table and started wetting herself, the private agy were informed of this but their response was we'd expect that - lets rush things along and get her moved

Ellie knew a brilliant life but as things turned bad living with her 'parents' what mustve been going through her mind knowing how happy she was with her grandparents just a few months ago

The false promotinal bollocks pisses me off as well. All the family photos and videos of her sports day, in the arcade, playing ball in the park, all fake love crap

These are the sentencing remarks of Justice Wilkie if you'd like to read

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/r-v-butler-gray-sentencing.pdf

Anyhow I'll leave it there

 

Yeah poor kid, saw the headline and heard a bit but not read about it tbh after how much this pissed me off

 

TBH, this threads not that much fun...

 

Was never meant to be, saddest thing ive ever had the displeasure of reading about

Everyone I know in real life said they didnt want to hear anymore as it really played on my mind and I kept bringing it up

Wondered if anyone else here had been as pissed off as me

 

Things like this are awful but if we let ourselves get bogged down with all the bad news we see we'd be a country full of miserable depressed arseholes mate.

I stopped reading / watching the news years ago because it's all soon and gloom nowadays. I bet most on here can't remember the days when we got some good news stories too.

 

We read stuff like this from other country's and think it's just them, when we read it about our own we don't like to face the fact that it is us as well.
How the **** do things like this happen in a so called civilised world?

 

I think you have to see that a good soul can't but feel for that child.. so you need to recognise that someone taught you well Dr. don't let it change. just focus on something positive that might be done in future. the past is gone and can't be changed. the future is what we make of it.

 

This case highlights the exact reasons we shouldn't have a death penalty. If the authorities can get something so wrong then why do you have any faith in any of their other rulings? How many innocent people would be condemned to death because of an incompetent judge or authority figure?