The Toffee's up next....

[Nuggets]

Don’t agree at all. This season even more than last season we will have spells with pressure coming into us or rapid counter attacks where the wingers have to track back. Our success so far has been built on intensity. We kept sides like Blackburn at bay last season penned into our own half for large periods because everybody worked with the same intensity.

I agree more with SD, but I think you both make good points.

I'd expect a deep-sitting two man midfield to go across and cover their area of the pitch when we push forwards, particularly when we've got an attacking left back looking to whip balls in. As SD says, when we attack - we push forward with one full back and keep the other behind. Usually that's Davis pushing forward and Tuanzebe staying back and almost becoming a third centre back. We then have our two central midfielders in front. It's a physically demanding role for the midfielder, as they're covering a lot of ground, but it has been our winning system. Phillips did not cover well enough in the last two games. West Ham and Everton both pressed us high and exploited gaps. I think that then has an impact on Morsy, as he's dragged out of position to plug a gap. It's one of the key reasons why we've lost the midfield battle in the last two matches (although the key reason were individual errors and misplaced passes).

But I also agree with you Yorkie that our wingers do need to drop back and help defend off the ball, particularly against tough teams and when we're defending leads. Both Burns and J Clarke defended poorly on the weekend and both made key mistakes leading to each goal.

For me - our off-the-ball, out-of-possession shape and performance has been poor for the last two games. Hopefully that hasn't coincided with Tuanzebe's injury, otherwise he'll be a bigger miss than we feared. Compare our last two games with the draws against Brighton and Fulham where we were set up well, defended as a unit, and could spring effective counter attacks.

I think this is why it's crucial Harry Clarke is back to full fitness. He knows the role at right back (O'Shea gave it a go, but he's a centre back and the less said about Johnson the better). Taylor is more attack-minded than Phillips, true, but again - he should know his role and I think Phillips needs a rest.

Now if we're to go even deeper with the tactical analysis (for those still reading), we scored so many goals last season by our attacking midfielders or centre forward moving out wide in the box and cutting it back for someone like Chaplin or Hutchinson to score from a more central position inside the area. It's possibly why McKenna persists with Hutchinson in the middle. But I don't think that's working against Premier League opposition - who are generally set up better and are faster at making recovery runs. It's why our goals have mostly come from 'moments' (Delap's two solo runs and finishes against Fulham and Villa, Morsy goal from a poorly cleared corner, Szmodics running behind to catch Man City cold etc.)

Another key factor in our success last season is the 'finishers' substitutions McKenna loved to make. We could make three/four changes and the system would still work and we'd score goals. Relentless pressing, intricate passing moves, exploiting space - I'm going misty eyed remembering it! However, our attacking 'finishers' this season (mostly Taylor, Chaplin, Szmodics, and Hirst) have not brought that same energy and success. Now possibly that's because a few of those players are used to starting games and maybe they're not been given enough time to make an impact. But also, potentially after several games of them having these opportunities from the bench (deep breath), they're not good enough to change a game at this level.

 

[itfcptc]

Good analysis Nuggets. There's definitely a mixture of the level is a lot more challenging this year but also the partnerships and understanding aren't quite there. People taking an extra touch because they're not quite sure where their team mate is going to be. Burns has got a bit of stick but he's not being used to his best, the Clarke chance was exactly the kind of thing we're used to seeing but we're not seeing it enough.

As I've said I've so far not seen anything in the new players performances over and above what we've seen from the squad last season, in fact we've probably already made more errors this season than we did in the entirety of last season and some of those weren't under a great deal of pressure.

I think the Luongo/Morsy partnership would struggle but Luongo played a blinder of a first half against Liverpool and we do miss him, him and Morsy have just been so much in sync the past 2 seasons and he brings the best out of him. I haven't seen that from Phillips yet, I've seen the odd Hollywood pass but in general so far he's looked weak and given the ball away too many times. He also isn't covering the left side as well as Luongo has. As others have said Taylor has looked very good coming on this season but thinking back to last season I was never 100% convinced that he deserved a start and that he fitted the system we play.

Again Clarke offers more going forwards but I also felt last season the RB position was our weakest link, the one area it was very obvious in terms of starting positions we needed to strengthen.

This season was always going to be hard and I've not had a lot of optimism but part of me feels our strength was the fact this team had been together and achieved amazing things with outstanding attitude but also quality and we needed to build on that. It feels in a way due to the number of new signings but most importantly for me the fact many of them have come in straight away to the team ahead of players who have not deserved to be dropped that the genie has been let out of the bottle somewhat.

In regards to finishers argument, last season bringing on terrier like players like Al Hamadi, Hutchinson and Sarmiento definitely helped. Chaplin especially isn't that type of player and McKenna has often not chosen to bring them all on at the 60minute mark like he did last season. So I see a little bit what you're saying Nuggets but it also feels like McKenna is tactically playing things differently to last season. I'd like to see us start with the likes of Hirst and Chaplin then bring on Delap and Szmodics.

 

[Nuggets]

Good analysis Nuggets. There's definitely a mixture of the level is a lot more challenging this year but also the partnerships and understanding aren't quite there. People taking an extra touch because they're not quite sure where their team mate is going to be. Burns has got a bit of stick but he's not being used to his best, the Clarke chance was exactly the kind of thing we're used to seeing but we're not seeing it enough.

As I've said I've so far not seen anything in the new players performances over and above what we've seen from the squad last season, in fact we've probably already made more errors this season than we did in the entirety of last season and some of those weren't under a great deal of pressure.

I think the Luongo/Morsy partnership would struggle but Luongo played a blinder of a first half against Liverpool and we do miss him, him and Morsy have just been so much in sync the past 2 seasons and he brings the best out of him. I haven't seen that from Phillips yet, I've seen the odd Hollywood pass but in general so far he's looked weak and given the ball away too many times. He also isn't covering the left side as well as Luongo has. As others have said Taylor has looked very good coming on this season but thinking back to last season I was never 100% convinced that he deserved a start and that he fitted the system we play.

Again Clarke offers more going forwards but I also felt last season the RB position was our weakest link, the one area it was very obvious in terms of starting positions we needed to strengthen.

This season was always going to be hard and I've not had a lot of optimism but part of me feels our strength was the fact this team had been together and achieved amazing things with outstanding attitude but also quality and we needed to build on that. It feels in a way due to the number of new signings but most importantly for me the fact many of them have come in straight away to the team ahead of players who have not deserved to be dropped that the genie has been let out of the bottle somewhat.

In regards to finishers argument, last season bringing on terrier like players like Al Hamadi, Hutchinson and Sarmiento definitely helped. Chaplin especially isn't that type of player and McKenna has often not chosen to bring them all on at the 60minute mark like he did last season. So I see a little bit what you're saying Nuggets but it also feels like McKenna is tactically playing things differently to last season. I'd like to see us start with the likes of Hirst and Chaplin then bring on Delap and Szmodics.

I definitely feel the better quality of the opposition is the main factor. We're new to this division, a period of adapting to the tempo of top flight games is to be expected - for almost all our players (old and new) who have predominantly played Championship football. Yes, lack of partnerships or developing partnerships are also a factor. However, I'd argue our best team performances this season have been the defensive quality shown in Brighton and the two home draws against Fulham and Villa (where we arguably deserved all three points). In those three games, we played predominantly with new players and we played well. So, I don't think it's as simple as 'too many new players', otherwise we'd be outplayed week-to-week. I wonder if it's more down to our recent opposition sussing us out tactically (press Ipswich in our own third, attack the flanks, double up on Hutchinson etc.) or the Tuanzebe injury has made us unbalanced (essentially all six goals we conceded to West Ham and Everton began down the flanks).

The quantity of new signings has made McKenna question his ideal starting eleven. He's used 26 players already this season, which must be pushing for a Premier League record! I agree that right back was our weakest position last season and I was surprised we only signed Ben Johnson. However, Tuanzebe has really pushed on. For me, he's the player who has best stepped up to the Premier League - which probably shouldn't come as a surprise to us, because he's had a fair bit of experience in the division and spent several years training with Premier League squads.

I take the point about the old guard being taken out, through no fault of their own, and maybe that's impacted the dressing room spirit. But competition for places and improving the squad this summer was crucial. We saw several players depart (or return from loan) in the summer, a big investment was needed. McKenna's a fair manager though - if the likes of Woolfenden, Burgess, Taylor, Chaplin, and Hirst take their opportunity and put in good performances, they'll get starts. But for me, they've not taken their opportunities (admittedly quite limited) yet. No substitute (I count new and old players) has come on and made a noticeable impact (from memory). Possibly why McKenna's used so many players.

When fit, the only players I think deserve to be in the first team on merit are:

• Tuanzebe - hands down our most consistently reliable defender
• Greaves - a couple of notable gaffes (Villa), but generally plays well and performed well in the draws and vs Liverpool
• Davis - lack of a better alternative, sure, but I think he'll come good - set pieces still a threat
• Morsy - last two games aside, has stepped up well and been reliable on the ball
• Hutchinson - possibly the most questionable here, and would benefit moving to the right, but he's the one player that seems to relish getting on the ball and able to beat players
• Delap - for me, Delap's the only attacker that looks comfortable in this league, a lethal finisher (all four goals have been great) and has physicality and presses well (although makes bone-headed fouls at times). Dropping him when he's on form just sounds insane to me - he needs to start - although he should be subbed off earlier than 70/80 minutes, as he's blowing out his a*** after an hour!

All the other positions are up for grabs, in my opinion.

 

[itfcptc]

2nd halfs against Fulham and Villa especially the last quarters we really started to look like the Ipswich of the past couple of seasons with Morsy starting to dominate and patterns of play starting to come off.

I see why we've bought who we have because you can see they have raw talent or/and good physical attributes. Maybe we recruited 1 or 2 too many but I agree that we needed to strengthen just feel they should have been introduced more gradually overtime. New players should've earnt their place, it's something McKenna has generally done over time, he has rarely chucked new signings in straight away.

I'm still unsure why we got rid of Hladky and after Woolfendens' MoM performance why he was dropped. Hladky and Woolfenden were crucial along with Morsy in how we broke the press the past couple of seasons and it started working vs Fulham. Also recently Davis often looks far more effective when Chaplin is on the pitch, he's just able to pick him out.

Greaves and Delap both look physically capable but both for me have brought less positionally than Burgess and Hirst. Part of me thinks it'd be interesting to see Delap on the right wing, he offers physicality like Burns but is able to beat a player from deep (which Burns struggles with) although I doubt it'll happen given we only really have 2 senior strikers and a few options wide right.

We've seen in the past new signings under McKenna struggle over the first few games whilst they get to grip with how we play, the problem is we've now done that with lots at one point and you can see there's a real lack of cohesion over a whole match.

For me the standout player this season was Tuanzebe, which took me by surprise because I wasn't overly impressed with him. I've seen enough of Woolfenden, Morsy and Burns also to suggest they can at least compete at this level and show they can positively contribute at this level. I've yet to be convinced enough by any of the new signings at the moment to think they should be automatic first choice.

As McKenna says we have to trust the process and believe in him and the club know what they are doing however performance wise we've gone from a well oiled machine to one which looks disjointed, a lack of cohesion and probably a bit of a lack of trust between players which has mean heads drop. We may not have had the best squad in the Championship last season but the mentality of the team was outstanding, that looks a bit more fragile this season.

 

[Nuggets]

2nd halfs against Fulham and Villa especially the last quarters we really started to look like the Ipswich of the past couple of seasons with Morsy starting to dominate and patterns of play starting to come off.

I see why we've bought who we have because you can see they have raw talent or/and good physical attributes. Maybe we recruited 1 or 2 too many but I agree that we needed to strengthen just feel they should have been introduced more gradually overtime. New players should've earnt their place, it's something McKenna has generally done over time, he has rarely chucked new signings in straight away.

I'm still unsure why we got rid of Hladky and after Woolfendens' MoM performance why he was dropped. Hladky and Woolfenden were crucial along with Morsy in how we broke the press the past couple of seasons and it started working vs Fulham. Also recently Davis often looks far more effective when Chaplin is on the pitch, he's just able to pick him out.

Greaves and Delap both look physically capable but both for me have brought less positionally than Burgess and Hirst. Part of me thinks it'd be interesting to see Delap on the right wing, he offers physicality like Burns but is able to beat a player from deep (which Burns struggles with) although I doubt it'll happen given we only really have 2 senior strikers and a few options wide right.

We've seen in the past new signings under McKenna struggle over the first few games whilst they get to grip with how we play, the problem is we've now done that with lots at one point and you can see there's a real lack of cohesion over a whole match.

For me the standout player this season was Tuanzebe, which took me by surprise because I wasn't overly impressed with him. I've seen enough of Woolfenden, Morsy and Burns also to suggest they can at least compete at this level and show they can positively contribute at this level. I've yet to be convinced enough by any of the new signings at the moment to think they should be automatic first choice.

As McKenna says we have to trust the process and believe in him and the club know what they are doing however performance wise we've gone from a well oiled machine to one which looks disjointed, a lack of cohesion and probably a bit of a lack of trust between players which has mean heads drop. We may not have had the best squad in the Championship last season but the mentality of the team was outstanding, that looks a bit more fragile this season.

Fair points, ptc.

I do think it’s misleading and harsh to compare this season’s performances and mentality to last season. As we all agree, the step up is high. Arguably higher than a few of us anticipated. If anyone expects the fluency and levels of performance we saw in the Championship replicated in the Premier League this season … well they’re in for a long, possibly disappointing campaign. We’ve got to grind out points in this division. We’re going to be outplayed in most games. Pretty much all the teams in this division have gorged themselves on Premier League TV riches - £100 million odd a year - for multiple years. We’re up against faster, fitter, and better players. So, end-to end entertainment and last minute winners won’t be a regular feature here. We can maybe get to that standard in time - a lot of our players are in the same boat, adapting to life in the Premier League.

And I think this ties in to why the mentality is low. Last season we flew out of the gates with a load of early wins and last minute winners. We believed we could win games even if we went a goal down. It felt inevitable. It doesn’t this season, because we played Liverpool, Man City, and Brighton - three of the best English teams in the last few years - from the start. And the fixture list hasn’t really let up from there. Take the last two games out of the equation, and I don’t think we fared too badly. McKenna’s clearly working on something, but things have hit a blip.

As far as I’m aware, it was Hdlaky’s decision to leave. We didn’t force him out. We offered him a new contract. He wanted to stay in the Championship and warm the bench at Burnley, for the benefit of an added year and probably a higher salary. Yes, he was a good keeper and made some great saves - but let’s not forget he had his own erratic passing and gaffes last season. We conceded plenty of goals with him between the posts in the Championship. No Premier League side wanted him on a free, maybe that spoke volumes?

As you say, throwing new players immediately into the first team isn’t McKenna’s style. So why did he do it? He knows these players far better than any Town fan on the street. He trains them week-in, week-out. He presumably knows their state of mind and mentality. And he’s choosing not to trust in a few of last season’s starters. McKenna’s an ambitious manager. He’s coached in this division for several years. And he knows if he gets relegated with us, his reputation will take a blow and he might not get the same chances he had on the table a few months ago. Ultimately, his judgement is that Walton, Woolfenden, Burgess, Luongo, Taylor, Chaplin, and Hirst aren’t first team material right now. He also doesn’t appear to rate Townsend, Cajuste, Ogbene, Szmodics, and possibly now Johnson from the new signings. He’ll have his reasons why and they’ll be informed reasons. Maybe he’ll change it up on the weekend after consecutive defeats. Whatever he does, I hope things come to fruition and we can survive. I’d take a 17th place finish and another year of TV riches. But we must continue to build and invest.

 

[itfcptc]

I think it's fair to compare this and last seasons performances if you've seen some of the good patterns of play repeat by the same players and a not the same level of fluency from the new players.

We've been done a few times by pure quality in games but there are also few occasions this season where we've made mistakes under minimal pressure, probably more over the past 8 games than the entirety of McKennas reign. This uncertainty for me is because we've got alot of new faces in the team we saw it somewhat at the start of last season when Hladky first got his chance, but he eventually stepped up and it was 1 player developing into the team and that was necessary due to injury.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the not trusting these players to be first teamers and that's a risky thing to do. Trust can be easily lost and creep into performances.

Who am I to criticise, I'm just surprised McKenna given how he's handled new signings in the past has chucked so many new players in so quickly. As you say it really sends a message that he doesn't think they're able to perform either individually or collectively at this level.

 

[stretchyboy]

2nd halfs against Fulham and Villa especially the last quarters we really started to look like the Ipswich of the past couple of seasons with Morsy starting to dominate and patterns of play starting to come off.

Greaves and Delap both look physically capable but both for me have brought less positionally than Burgess and Hirst. Part of me thinks it'd be interesting to see Delap on the right wing, he offers physicality like Burns but is able to beat a player from deep (which Burns struggles with) although I doubt it'll happen given we only really have 2 senior strikers and a few options wide right.

.

Not a bad shout about Delap on the right...he reminds me of a Kulesevski, a bit of a bull in a china shop.
I'd also mix it up a bit, try Dealp an the right and Hirst to the left of a front two, with Szmodics in the 10, with Hutch given a free role to go wherever he needs to. We need to start pulling defenders out of their position, so we can get the two in behind to sneak in the box. We are way too predictable at the moment, and at some point, if we don't win any of our next two (we have Man utd and Spurs after) K Mc needs to try something different.

 

[Nuggets]

I think we've identified and agreed on the key issues for why we're struggling - in what's been a good debate:

• Higher standard of opposition with better managers and players
• Weaker combinations and partnerships in the team, due to influx of new signings and changing starting line ups
• Psychological pressure - not won a game and players play knowing mistakes will be punished, which is leading to nervousness and, ironically, more mistakes
• Some of the players - both old and new ones - are struggling to positively impact and influence games, possibly due to lack of quality
• McKenna still doesn't seem to know his best starting eleven
• Potential issues with some players, who feel they've been unfairly dropped for newer signings who haven't stepped up.

I'll also mention something we've not touched upon - playing fewer games is a factor for me. In the Championship, we could often build on a run with a regular midweek game. In the Premier League, we've had instances where we've played at Portman Road - got a point and a good performance - but then haven't played at home again for a few weeks. Granted that impacts all Premier League teams - but I think for a side new to the division, it has a bigger impact as all the other sides have recent, longstanding experience with this fixture set up.

All of those factors impact on the team mindset and morale. Arguably a win of any type against Brentford will lighten the pressure and show we can win games at this level.

As for the solutions - we've all got different ideas and I've seen a lot. Here are the popular ones I've seen:

• Stick with as settled a line up as possible and hope it clicks and builds partnerships
• Revert to a team predominantly filled with last season's starters, including starting players like Woolfenden, Burgess, Taylor, Chaplin, and Hirst
• A combination of the above, which is my preference, where you go Muric, back four from last season (drop O'Shea, Greaves injured), Morsy and Taylor, and attacking four of Hutchinson (on right), two of Szmodics/Chaplin/J Clarke, and Delap up top
• Change formation and system to a back five (Woolfenden, O'Shea, and Burgess in the middle)
• Change formation and system to a flat midfield three (Phillips more defensive, Morsy and Taylor ahead of him which drops the Number 10)

I definitely don't begrudge McKenna making the decision! And yes, bullet points are my flavour of the month!

 

[stretchyboy]

If you're going to play the old guard, then you need to give them 4-5 games to bed in and get acclimatised to the prem/team.
You can't be playing them against Brentford, then dropping them if it doesn't work.

I can see why K Mc has stuck with the new boys, in the hope that they finally click to playing the Ipswich way

 

[Southcoastoldgaffer]

I think we've identified and agreed on the key issues for why we're struggling - in what's been a good debate:

• Higher standard of opposition with better managers and players
• Weaker combinations and partnerships in the team, due to influx of new signings and changing starting line ups
• Psychological pressure - not won a game and players play knowing mistakes will be punished, which is leading to nervousness and, ironically, more mistakes
• Some of the players - both old and new ones - are struggling to positively impact and influence games, possibly due to lack of quality
• McKenna still doesn't seem to know his best starting eleven
• Potential issues with some players, who feel they've been unfairly dropped for newer signings who haven't stepped up.

I'll also mention something we've not touched upon - playing fewer games is a factor for me. In the Championship, we could often build on a run with a regular midweek game. In the Premier League, we've had instances where we've played at Portman Road - got a point and a good performance - but then haven't played at home again for a few weeks. Granted that impacts all Premier League teams - but I think for a side new to the division, it has a bigger impact as all the other sides have recent, longstanding experience with this fixture set up.

All of those factors impact on the team mindset and morale. Arguably a win of any type against Brentford will lighten the pressure and show we can win games at this level.

As for the solutions - we've all got different ideas and I've seen a lot. Here are the popular ones I've seen:

• Stick with as settled a line up as possible and hope it clicks and builds partnerships
• Revert to a team predominantly filled with last season's starters, including starting players like Woolfenden, Burgess, Taylor, Chaplin, and Hirst
• A combination of the above, which is my preference, where you go Muric, back four from last season (drop O'Shea, Greaves injured), Morsy and Taylor, and attacking four of Hutchinson (on right), two of Szmodics/Chaplin/J Clarke, and Delap up top
• Change formation and system to a back five (Woolfenden, O'Shea, and Burgess in the middle)
• Change formation and system to a flat midfield three (Phillips more defensive, Morsy and Taylor ahead of him which drops the Number 10)

I definitely don't begrudge McKenna making the decision! And yes, bullet points are my flavour of the month!

Soon we will be hearing news about Nuggets' honorary degree! Agreed it
has been an excellent debate, and we all more or less agree our preferred line-up.

 

[itfcptc]

It feels similar to the start with Paul Cook in some ways with so many new players. Not quite demolition man style change but not far off....I was fairly against that approach as well but again what do I know, it ended up working well. Difference was we didn't have anything which was working well to build off. We do now.

I think we're too late to go back to getting all the old guard back in and gradually integrating the new players as many of them now really won't be match fit. But would be good to see a bit of consistency and not dropping players who've performed well.

We always said this summer was going to be a huge challenge with a well oiled squad who'd come from league 1 paying minimal fees and blending the new signings. I think nearly every player we've bought over the summer has cost probably more than double the amount of our entire first team squad last season. We've also bought a lot of potential, there we havent bought any players in with real consistent PL experience. We bought potential, players with minimal PL experience which has ended in relegation, a player without any experience of English football and one with a great deal of experience but nothing positive the past 2 season. I'm not criticising that it's just the reality of the PL and who we're able to recruit maybe we could've got a couple of experienced signings like Southampton did with Lallana. It feels like a few of our players are a little bit rabbit in the headlights and I'd say that more about the new players than ones here last season.