The thread for people who don't think the season's already over

It also helps if your new signings don't start headbutting people.

 

Fair point but you also have to appreciate that these players are ageing together at the same time. We can’t expect the same levels each year now unfortunately, even though they’re still top quality.

The point is that 4 years on, we still use Milner and Hendo in midfield. Yes it’s mostly because of injuries but shock - ox Thiago Naby are injury prone. What do you expect?

We still kept bobby on who has been poor ever since we won the CL. We gave Milner an extension. Robbo continues to get an extended run in the team. Don’t get me started on Milner and Hendo

So many underperformers who are constantly given chances due to lack of options or blind loyalty from Klopp.

 

I think everyone agrees that midfield needs sorting. I don’t think can be too harsh on the recruitment. We have refreshed the squad with a couple of signings every year other than the 1 when we won the league/or CL when we only brought in Elliott?

couple years ago we focussed on the defence. Konate, tsimikas we’re brought in.

This summer we focussed on the forwards with diaz, nunes, carvahlo bright in. Plus Ramsay as a development / back up for TAA.

No doubt we were looking at midfield as we were obviously in for the guy that went to madrid. Way the club runs is to have 1 or 2 targets and if we don’t get them, we don’t panic. The other option is doing a United and missing out on 4 targets and then randomly signing a 30 year old who can’t run for 70m!

The other problem is, we have a tonne of midfielders. Yes some aren’t good enough, some are always injured, but clubs wage bill is pretty high. We already have 8 first team midfielders for 3 positions. If we buy 1 or 2 more that’s 10 for 3 roles, 10 big wages to pay, 4/5 of which are unlikely to play. We need to shift a few of those players on, names ox Keita as taking up big money for no value, but no one is going to buy them. Therefor makes brining in players that much harder.

 

You just did

We've been open to offers for Ox and Naby no-one's bitten, i.e. we can't really shift them. And we can't actually sacrifce them either.

Firmino is probably third choice behind Nunez and Jota. With everyone available he won't be starting much.

We gave Milner an extension - that's a reasonably cheap option for a squad member who is at least able to play.

Why Robbo is playing ahead of Tsimikas is a different point to the one you originally made.

Personally the mental state of the camp worries me more than the squad itself.

 

You’re right about having too many midfielders but that’s all part of recruitment (selling and buying). Also the reliance on building a midfield on Thiago and then Naby - too injury prone players. It’s a recipe for disaster.

Giving Milner a new contract. Extending Hendo for more years.

Some really poor decisions all in all.

We’re a huge club with massive Revenues and competing all fronts. I’m sorry but We should not be in this position.

 

Dint think anyone has built a midfield on naby? He’s never been fit enough to even think about it.

Thiago wasn’t massively injured prone. Had the 1 big injury in that Everton game and only after that he’s picked up a few muscle injuries.

milner and Hendo, you have your opinion of them and nothing will change that. Milner is as much for the off field influence than on it, however one thing is he’s versatile and generwlly always available so as a cheap squad option and a good person to have for players like Elliott carvahlo Nunez to learn from etc.

Hendo form has dipped but again, he is so influential and looked up to in that squad. It’s difficult to quantify how much that is worth, but only have to look at teams like United, arsenal from couple years ago or Chelsea where they have no real leaders in their team and it allows players to just swan around offering nothing. Those 2 set the standards in terms of commitment.

and it’s all well and good saying part of recruitment is selling, but can’t work miracles. Who is going to pay millions for 2 injury plagued midfielders who haven’t hit any kind of performance levels in last 2 years? Put it this way, if you were a manager of a mid table prem club, would you spend 10/20m on either ox or Keita?

 

Talking about contracts, a lot has been written about VVD and how he’s been off the boil recently and how he gives the impression he’s not bothered. Has this got anything to do with his current contract compared to the new one for Salah? I read a few articles on how his salary is now dwarfed by Salah’s and how that could be an issue. He is on 220k a week and was the top earner. Now Salah is now on 350k and VVD and all the other senior players are well behind. Could this be a source of unease in the dressing room? Shouldn’t we review VVD’s contract and increase his pay?

 

Milner's also what, 7th or 8th choice? Not sure that he's really the issue.

 

i don’t want to hear about the influence and leadership. Where was that vs united? It’s all well and good shouting at teammates but if you’re hoofing the ball aimlessly because you’re sh*t on the ball and scared when opposition press you, then leadership and experience is irrelevant.

im sick of tired of overhyping these average footballers because they ‘lead’. What are they leading exactly? Apparently their influence is so massive and they would not allow performance levels to drop LOL. Look at us! It’s all a myth. They have little impact on this team and in fact, are a hinderance now. They held to such incredibly low standards that it’s unbelievable.

why the hell did we give Ox a new contract? Naby hasn’t worked out and will most likely leave next year. Thiago is injury prone, there’s no way around that.

so we’re literally left with Fabinho as the one reliable world class option. We clearly wanted Tchouameni this summer but when that fell through, where was the back up? There wasn’t one - we just wanted to wait until next season. Now we have injuries - which no one could ever predict(!)

And I don’t care about the number of midfielders we have - majority are either rubbish or injury prone. If we have to take a hit and spend money on transfers and wages, then do it. Because we know ox and Milner are definitely leaving next year.

It’s just really poor from a club who have been run almost flawlessly for a few years. Silly decision making which I fear is now driven by Klopp as his influence increases.

The constant need to wait years for the right player is just not good enough for us now. Football and our competitors do not wait for us. They all evolve whilst we sit on our hands. There needs to be a balance between waiting a long time for the number 1 target vs taking someone who is not as good but you get them in asap.

Every year, we have a shortcoming which is not addressed and it costs us. Last year, we didn’t replace Gini and I genuinely believe another mid would have helped us win the lot. The year before that, it was lack of defenders

we have a problem of hanging onto players for too long. We should have sold nat Phillips this summer but we’re blocking his move as well.

Sorry for the rant.

 

Maybe, but if they want bigger contracts then playing badly is not the way to get them.

 

This is Klopp we’re talking about. Milner is trusted and he will start many games and also be the first sub to come on.

 

Possibly, I also think that players have an eye on the World Cup.

Personally, these players have won everything f under Klopp and was flogged last year both mentally and physically. Which is why we needed more signings to help us refreshed.

Look at the passion that diaz brought vs palace, and whilst it was stupid, Nunez brought some fire as well.

 

Also there was no word as to why fab was dropped. Again, Milner and Hendo were preferred ahead of him.

If he was dropped other than due to injuries/fitness, then it’s another example of blind loyalty into **** players who continue to cost us

 

players contracts as publicly declared (22/23)
Position, Age, annual salary, weekly salary.


Mohamed Salah F 30 £18,200,000 £350,000
Virgil Van Dijk D 31 £11,440,000 £220,000
Thiago Alcántara do Nascimento M 31 £10,400,000 £200,000
Trent Alexander-Arnold D 23 £9,360,000 £180,000
Roberto Firmino F 30 £9,360,000 £180,000
Diogo Jota F 25 £9,360,000 £180,000
Fabinho Tavares M 28 £9,360,000 £180,000
Darwin Núñez F 23 £9,330,000 £179,423
Alisson Becker GK 29 £7,800,000 £150,000
Jordan Henderson M 32 £7,280,000 £140,000
James Milner M 36 £7,280,000 £140,000
Naby Keita M 27 £6,240,000 £120,000
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain M 29 £6,240,000 £120,000
Joel Matip D 31 £5,200,000 £100,000
Joe Gomez D 25 £3,900,000 £75,000
Ibrahima Konate D 0 £3,640,000 £70,000
Nathaniel Phillips D 25 £3,360,000 £64,615
Konstantinos Tsimikas D 26 £3,120,000 £60,000
Adrian San Miguel del Castillo GK 35 £3,016,000 £58,000
Luis Díaz F 25 £2,912,000 £56,000
Andrew Robertson D 28 £2,600,000 £50,000
Andrew Robertson D 28 £2,600,000 £50,000
Harvey Elliott M 19 £780,000 £15,000
Curtis Jones M 21 £390,000 £7,500
Caoimhin Kelleher GK 23 £312,000 £6,000
Sepp van den Berg D 20 £260,000 £5,000


What is striking to me is how relatively little Diaz is paid. TAA gets more than 3 times what Robertson earns. Interesting.

 

So you want us to buy more players while lambasting the players we have bought?

We're all frustrated and no-one's denying that the midfield needs work. But the bigger picture is that the only games we've lost in 2022 (not counting second legs) are the CL final and now against Man U, while also winning both domestic cups, the Community Shield and getting 90+ points in the league last year. Yes we didn't play great a lot of the time, but we were effective. Are there issues right now? Of course, but it seems to be a general malaise in the squad, with injuries and stupid suspensions not helping. We can point at players like Milner, Hendo, Naby etc. but players like Trent, VVD, Robbo, Fabinho etc., and maybe Klopp himself, are arguably more concerning.

We've drawn two and lost one. It's frustrating but not the end of the world. The squad won't magically transform between now and the summer, so it's about Klopp, the players and the staff working out what's not clicking and amending it.

I admit I was hoping that after the disappontments at the end of the season, we would be raring to go and on a roll, like last time. That hasn’t happened and the club needs to work out why. It's not just one thing or lack of personnel.

And we've still not dropped points in the Champions League...yet.

 

I like your optimism.,

personally,I can continue seeing us struggle until our midfield offers protection to the defence and links up with the attack.

fab plus Thiago or Naby as LCM is the only combination we have that does that effectively, and both are injured. No one else in the squad can play that role. That’s my concern

 

I'm not sure I'm that optimistic, just that the bigger picture is that the squad is actually pretty good (not perfect) and is going through a rough patch. No idea how long this patch will last though. If buying a midfielder helps get us out the rut then great, but I'm not sure that's the underlying problem, or at least not all of it. (It is though something that just generally needs doing.)

 

Spot on....

 

No cos he will do well to find another cb on that wages he is on never.mind the stupid money forwards get.

Go look at even chelsea or city and his wages is pretty competitive.

Apparently cheslea have stupidly given koulibaly 295k.a week.

If vvd think 220k isn't enough then he can jog on amd all. He is 31 and made his choice.

I think he looks very.much similar to last season start where he is not match fit enough and needs to be pushed.

 

Only four points behind Brighton. Reckon we can overtake them now they lost Potter.