Transfer Rumours The Sterling Discussions

[moreinjuredthanowen]

A lot of "average" players have won medals at Man U because their team/squad was a mixture of class and grafters, giving it all you've got for your club is commendable even if you are only average.

absolutely.

But you win nothing with average players in key positions. Full back is not actually that key. If you've worldies up front and the defenders so their job you win things.

If you've defenders who let in sloppy goals and crap up fornt you don't.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Not at all, I just don't like this [HASHTAG]#average[/HASHTAG] BS that keeps being banged about. I've said many times that Flanno is limited in his abilities but equally, he'll never let anyone down and his tackling is superb. In a defensive back line, he'd be my pick bar injury.

He let's people down when he's dribbled past or out of position.

And his tackling isn't great - yes, he can put in a couple of crunching tackles in but overall, it's poor.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

He let's people down when he's dribbled past or out of position.

And his tackling isn't great - yes, he can put in a couple of crunching tackles in but overall, it's poor.

Stop looking at statistics Jimmy, try watching the games

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

And these average players are not starters e.g O'Shea, Wes Brow, Mikel etc.

They're useful to have in the squad but you don't build your starting line up around them.

Agreed, but we're not starting off where Man U were when they incorporated those players into their squad, you can only carry so much baggage in any squad, including the mancs.

And ours also.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

absolutely.

But you win nothing with average players in key positions. Full back is not actually that key. If you've worldies up front and the defenders so their job you win things.

If you've defenders who let in sloppy goals and crap up fornt you don't.

Skrtel has ****ed up many times during his Anfield career but is still first on the teamsheet, Carra and other defenders had blemishes on their days at LFC.
Flanno is still learning his trade and is only part of the squad because we can't(or won't)bring in proven class defenders.

 

[Tobes]

which is why you appreciate flanagan but can't admit he is actually an average player just like hibbert was. I always say there's nothing wrong with average as long as you are not asking them do do more than they can.

Average right full... fine no issue, don't expect him to light the world up going forward then. the other areas need to be stronger as a result. if you also have average CM in allen, then journeyman like lambert up front you will struggle.

Tony in his prime was a totally underated defender mate, as that's what he was - a defender, and he was ****ing good at it. His solidity and ability to move across and cover the CB position centrally, allowed Baines the freedom to bomb on, which was the cornerstone of our attacking play under Moyes.

From what I've seen of him I'd say Flannagan is a similar style of player, a solid defender, shame about his injuries, I hope the lad can come back from them, but he's going to face an uphill struggle after 18 months + out of the game.

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

Tony in his prime was a totally underated defender mate, as that's what he was - a defender, and he was ****ing good at it. His solidity and ability to move across and cover the CB position centrally, allowed Baines the freedom to bomb on, which was the cornerstone of our attacking play under Moyes.

From what I've seen of him I'd say Flannagan is a similar style of player, a solid defender, shame about his injuries, I hope the lad can come back from them, but he's going to face an uphill struggle after 18 months + out of the game.

As a fan, I love players like Hibbert me (obviously not Hibbert himself the bluenose tart ). Flanagan is exactly that type, won't moan, will play anywhere they are asked, will train hard and they always improve over time because of it. As a fan and I'm sure as a manager you know exactly what you are going to get over a season from them. If they are "average" to some then so be it but to those who really understand football as a team game (and the English game especially) they are little gems that actually don't come around as often as you'd think

Flannel unfortunately may never recover fully from this latest set back (although if he does and Rodgers is still at Anfield he will walk back into this defence no bother). I feel for the kid and think it's a loss that should be met with disappointment not the obvious glee of some on here.

 

[luvgonzo]

As a fan, I love players like Hibbert me (obviously not Hibbert himself the bluenose tart ). Flanagan is exactly that type, won't moan, will play anywhere they are asked, will train hard and they always improve over time because of it. As a fan and I'm sure as a manager you know exactly what you are going to get over a season from them. If they are "average" to some then so be it but to those who really understand football as a team game (and the English game especially) they are little gems that actually don't come around as often as you'd think

Flannel unfortunately may never recover fully from this latest set back (although if he does and Rodgers is still at Anfield he will walk back into this defence no bother). I feel for the kid and think it's a loss that should be met with disappointment not the obvious glee of some on here.

I posted similar yesterday, he's a good player and always gives his all. He may not be fancy like some fullbacks but he'll do a job week after week.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

As a fan, I love players like Hibbert me (obviously not Hibbert himself the bluenose tart ). Flanagan is exactly that type, won't moan, will play anywhere they are asked, will train hard and they always improve over time because of it. As a fan and I'm sure as a manager you know exactly what you are going to get over a season from them. If they are "average" to some then so be it but to those who really understand football as a team game (and the English game especially) they are little gems that actually don't come around as often as you'd think

Flannel unfortunately may never recover fully from this latest set back (although if he does and Rodgers is still at Anfield he will walk back into this defence no bother). I feel for the kid and think it's a loss that should be met with disappointment not the obvious glee of some on here.

Spot on

 

[Milnermino Lamborini]

Problem with Flano isn't that he's poor going forward. He's actually average at defending also.

The most dribbled past defender in the league last season. A lot of the attacks were down his side.

Teams targeted Flanno a lot last season as they had the same thinking. Statistically if most attacks are on your side then it is very possible that you would be the most dribbled past defender. That said how many goals did Liverpool concede as a consequence of Flanno being sh**** ? I can hardly think of any.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Teams targeted Flanno a lot last season as they had the same thinking. Statistically if most attacks are on your side then it is very possible that you would be the most dribbled past defender. That said how many goals did Liverpool concede as a consequence of Flanno being sh**** ? I can hardly think of any.

its not like a teams never targeted a fresh inexperienced youngster before is it

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Teams targeted Flanno a lot last season as they had the same thinking. Statistically if most attacks are on your side then it is very possible that you would be the most dribbled past defender. That said how many goals did Liverpool concede as a consequence of Flanno being sh**** ? I can hardly think of any.

First one off the top of my head was the away game against Cardiff where he left too much space between himself and Agger, and was easily beaten.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

I get the point you're making in that teams need these passionate players who aren't glamorous.

But Flanno is not even at that level. The type of players you are referring to, that fit that mould are the likes of Arbeloa, Henderson, Allen. Solid players who are going to give you 6 or 7 out of 10 every week.

Flanno is not at the level and we need to stop accepting this mid-table attitude that we can't have quality over the pitch. As I say, quality doesn't mean having 11 Messi's. It's about having players who can do their job, no matter how basic it is, to a very high level.

And excusing Flanno for being beaten by most attackers in the league because he's young and inexperienced is small time. That's why we need better options and we already have one in Manquillo.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

its not like a teams never targeted a fresh inexperienced youngster before is it

So because he's young and inexperienced, we should continue with him?

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

So because he's young and inexperienced, we should continue with him?

Nah we should sign a 33 year old right back who has been pants for the last 3 years in the prem and is going to be out of contract at the end of the season because he offers us 'experience' and is on a downward curve, rather than a young player who was LFC defender of the year last year and only 21 and can improve (plus local so can affiliate with the fans more - see my post on the under 21 thread on prem board for more info on why that's important)

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Nah we should sign a 33 year old right back who has been pants for the last 3 years in the prem and is going to be out of contract at the end of the season because he offers us 'experience' and is on a downward curve, rather than a young player who was LFC defender of the year last year and only 21 and can improve (plus local so can affiliate with the fans more - see my post on the under 21 thread on prem board for more info on why that's important)

Johnson and Flanagan are both not good enough for this club.

We can compromise - Flanagan can possibly stay as a 3rd/4th choice fullback though.

LFC's defender of the year? That's laughable.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

So because he's young and inexperienced, we should continue with him?

No, we should continue with him because he's a good reliable player. Stop trying to twist my words.

Oh, and I've never said we couldn't improve on him either btw.

 

[Peej]

good... well....

I define it this way tell me where you'd rank hibbert and flanagan base don this then.


1. World class... is what it is. would be in a world 22 man squad ( i.e. iniesta or a ronaldo or a squarz or just maybe de gea)
2. top player.. CL standard player across biggest league in europe. (terry, hazard, ivanoic, rooney etc)
3. Very good player... top 6 type player (say nasri at city or barkely at everton)
4. good player. A player you'd rate but you'd not see making ti at a top club. Like lallana or say even long at southampton perhaps (pushing it imo).
5. Average player... run of the mill premiership player like allen or half of everton
6. Journeyman. below par player making his trade. Like borini

so would you rate Flanagan that highly to put him up there as "good" via my way of looking at it?

Hibbert is a good premier league player....he has to be or wouldn't have played so many games. Injury has finally ended his playing time but as an asset to the club he is worth keeping on and getting him involved coaching etc.

Flanno had a great breakout season and proved to be a key player in falling short of a title win. The players who have come in have not managed to replicate the form / impact Flanno had on the defensive unit

I am sure that continuing his development without injury would have seen him join Stones in the England setup and become a player who would prove to be a great addition to any top club pushing for CL/League titles.

 

[luvgonzo]

I don't get the Jimmys attitude to Flanagan or Lucas for that matter, we'll never have a team full of World Class players, players like the 2 mentioned are integral to a squad as they give everything game after game. They may not start, they may have to fight for their place but that's exactly what they will do because they love the club. I'd take a player like that over some fancy person playing for the money.

You can bring quality in but without the players who want to play for the club you lose the dive and determination to succeed.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Hibbert is a good premier league player....he has to be or wouldn't have played so many games. Injury has finally ended his playing time but as an asset to the club he is worth keeping on and getting him involved coaching etc.

Flanno had a great breakout season and proved to be a key player in falling short of a title win. The players who have come in have not managed to replicate the form / impact Flanno had on the defensive unit

I am sure that continuing his development without injury would have seen him join Stones in the England setup and become a player who would prove to be a great addition to any top club pushing for CL/League titles.

I could be wrong but I believe Flanno did join up with the England squad at one point