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Off Topic The 'Stephen Hawking is an overrated fool' thread...

Discussion in 'Hull City' started by Bengals Tiger, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. Bengals Tiger

    Bengals Tiger Well-Known Member

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    Your oft-quoted analogy relates to common-or-garden Newtonian gravity for planets, etc.
     
    #161
  2. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly, as we look out into the universe, we are actually looking into the past. We have seen astronomical structures 13.1 billion light years away; if we keep going, eventually we will see nothing, because electrons scatter light when unattached, so we could never see the Big Bang happen, but we could one day (in my life time certainly) observe the very first stars being formed. As in, the very first ones. We couldn't go any further back than 380,000 years after the start of the universe, because the universe was too hot for electrons and protons to form basic hydrogen atoms and formed a sort of 'cosmic' soup of energy, but it'd certainly be an achievement to glimpse those first stars, which would be thousands of times the size of the sun.
     
    #162
  3. Bengals Tiger

    Bengals Tiger Well-Known Member

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    Some of the pseudo-scientists will try to convince you that it's an infinitesimal space (zero radius) laughably called a 'singularity'. Nature abhors singularities. They 'exist' only in mathematical 'models', NOT in the physical universe.
     
    #163
  4. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    While Special Relativity threw out most of what Newton first thought up, it's still an important model for people who don't dabble in science because it helps explain basic gravitational concepts.
     
    #164
  5. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    It's not an infintesimal space at all, even black holes have a finite mass and can evaporate over billions of years. Mass doesn't just vanish, it can't be destroyed, it just adds to the mass of the black hole and it's gravity.
     
    #165
  6. Bengals Tiger

    Bengals Tiger Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does. And Newton nicked a lot of his science stuff from his tutor, Robert Hooke, and a lot of his math stuff from Liebnitz.
     
    #166
  7. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    See, that's just weird. We can watch something happening, that's already happened.

    As the universe is infinite, every part of the sky we look up at will have a a star at some point, but we can't see them because the light hasn't got here yet. In time, as more stars become visible to us, will night be brighter than day?
     
    #167
  8. Quill

    Quill Bastard

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    I must've copied it from my brain seconds before I posted it.

    Cockwomble.
     
    #168
  9. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    No. The stars that we see are visible because their light can reach us. Ones that are discovered in deeper space don't suddenly appear in the night sky.

    Everything you see has already happened, just like everything you hear has already happened in the past. A popular analogy is when runners look at the starting pistol instead of listening to it, because light travels faster than sound. If you had a mirror on Pluto, that you could look at with a telescope, you could see what was happening in the spot you were stood in 13.8 hours ago.

    If you could somehow teleport instantly across the stars and were stood on a planet x light years away (with x being your age) and you had a telescope focused on the point of your birth, you could watch yourself being born.
     
    #169
  10. Bengals Tiger

    Bengals Tiger Well-Known Member

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    Different pseudo-scientists have different opinions on the radius of a BH (zero or even quite large). They can't even agree how the 'radius' is defined. The so-called Schwarzschild Radius isn't even a 'distance' as usually defined.
    And it's 'Mass plus energy' (E=m c^2), not just mass.
     
    #170
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016

  11. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    It's all mind bending, but I'm enjoying reading the discussion, can we not have it dropping to just a slanging match?
     
    #171
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  12. Bengals Tiger

    Bengals Tiger Well-Known Member

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    'Evaporate' is a misnomer. Hawking vacillated over this for ages.
     
    #172
  13. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    That's something I'd have to read several times to start to get my head around, but each time I try, I can feel my brain bubble.

    Edit. Surely it's more a case that the light can't reach us...yet? The light won't just stop, will it?
     
    #173
  14. Quill

    Quill Bastard

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    He asked a question, I simply answered.

    I'm off to watch a film now anyways.
     
    #174
  15. Bengals Tiger

    Bengals Tiger Well-Known Member

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    All true, subject to the word 'if'.
     
    #175
  16. Bengals Tiger

    Bengals Tiger Well-Known Member

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    Now that is a damned good question, one that I've not seen expressed before. I won't attempt to answer it in full here, but night then won't be brighter than day then; but it 'would' be brighter than night now. If Earth still exists ....
     
    #176
  17. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    The nigth sky as we know it will look massively different in 100,000 years time as we move around the galay. Different stars will be visible than before, others will disappear. It's very likely that the night sky will become brighter in the future, especially as the Andromeda galaxy approaches.
     
    #177
  18. Steven Toast

    Steven Toast Well-Known Member

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    No, it won't just stop, but it's the same reason you can't see a torchlight in Glasgow from your bedroom window (if you had a clear view with no obstructions). Stuff gets in the way, light is bent around larger structures (galaxies, stars etc) due to lensing. The light doesn't stop, but by the time it's reached your eye, it's no longer in the visible spectrum.

    I've always wondered what the night sky would look like to somebody who can see in the UV spectrum, as they'd be able to see so much more.
     
    #178
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  19. tigerscanada

    tigerscanada Well-Known Member

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    #179
  20. modnrock

    modnrock Active Member

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    I cant see past the white bits on my chedder cheese at the mo but ill wrap my head around quatum physics after my hot choccy ....
     
    #180

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