I think to have standing zones for those that wish to stand is a cracking idea. I don't buy the safety issue at all, for years and years those huge terraces held 10's or 1000's with very few problems. Because of a few incidents and the most infamous caused by fools and idiots, the whole culture of football was changed and not for the better in my view. At most way games people stand for most of the game anyway and this season I have noticed the stewards are not even bothering to ask us to sit down. So segregated standing sections is fine for me.
The mere fact that you can make that ludicrous statement means that you are both of the same "scummy element". Over the years with my experiences at the Kennel and Loftus Road, I have had (and continue to have) nothing but the utmost loathing and contempt for both QPR & L*t*n - both with all-seater & standing. It makes no difference at either of these pig-sties.
Bit ignorant really. Luton is considerably worse than most in my experience but at Loftus Road it's no different than 99% of grounds- trouble is there if you go looking for it and not there if you don't. My point that they are "alright" as a group of fans is based on meeting Luton fans away from football who are thoroughly decent people and the fact their crowds are excellent for a club at that level that wasn't pulling in many more in their heyday. If people could take a step back and not let their bias get in the way for a minute then no football club's support is that different from society as a whole- some wrong 'uns but predominantly decent people.
That would still be the case with safe standing. You also wouldn't be obliged to stand as most of all grounds would likely remain seated.
Yes and no R - No, in that like Vic, I have had my worst football experiences at The Kennel and Steptoe's Yard. Not looking for any trouble, it has come my way and on several occasions had to fight off mobs at both grounds. Yes, in that living in Bandit Country, I have a lot of good scummer friends who I will have a beer with outside of football. Even a few of your lot have drifted this far north and again over a beer, no problems.
Just out of interest are you as quick to take the moral high ground with your own fans slagging off local rivals as you are on here? The levels of ignorance on there are certainly no better.
I don't think I am taking any moral high ground but my opinion of a QPR fan seemingly having a point of view about another club's whole support along the lines of 'they're all ****s, it's a ****hole etc etc' would be that it is just as odd but football does that to people.
Getting back to the theme of safe standing, if we can. At my local club F.C. Cologne safe standing is part of a generally fan friendly policy. The match experience begins with free public transport to the match (In my case from a town about 25 miles away). In the stadium itself they have standing for about 8,000 home fans (4,000 away) with 38,000 seats - for European matches standing areas would be converted, thus reducing the capacity to about 44,000. For some strange reason standing is considered safe in the Bundesliga but not for Europe. Even in the seated areas there are no stewards telling you to sit down all the time. Another bonus for me is that a *** at half time is also no problem (safe smoking areas). The idea of convertible seating is the way forward. If you have a high risk fixture,e.g. Millwall v West Ham you can always convert back to seating only. Nobody is suggesting a step back to the conditions on the Kop in the 70's and 80's. In my student days I very often went on the Kop in those days (when Watford weren't playing in a place nereby). When a goal was scored the resulting crush could end up with you ending up 16 rows further down. For those who were used to this it was no problem, although the St. Johns ambulance brigade were on permanent duty. Fortunately there was never a case of away fans invading the Kop at Liverpool (as at other grounds) otherwise it would have been very hairy indeed. The safe seating at e.g. Dortmund is a far cry from this - and there have never been any problems with it. Following on from our Q.P.R. friends comments, unfortunately it has become commonplace in England (here as well) to refer to your local rivals as scum, Portsmouth v Southampton, Millwall v West Ham, Newcastle v Sunderland etc. Most fans at most clubs are decent people (yes even at Luton). Having said that, there are some stadiums where you can visit wearing your clubs colours and wander round the town unmolested - with maybe a bit of banter with the locals - Norwich being a good example. Others are not so safe - the most intimidating grounds I have visited are Millwall, Burnley, Luton and Stoke City (I can honestly say that any fan of any midland club is taking their life in their hands wearing away colours in Stoke on match days ). At Q.P.R. I have never felt threatened. Every club has their nasty element (Millwall and Stoke more than most) but the majority are fans just like us.
Oh I don't know- I was very hurt when Bert Slater batted the ball into our net from a Liverpool corner.
cologne, in the case of Millwall and Stoke was that at their old grounds? I didn't feel intimidated at all at Stoke when there for Aidy's first win and I've never been to Millwall. The only grounds I have felt threatened at are Leeds (that was aimed at the chairman of the time - some things never change) and like you, Luton. When drivers of supporters coaches are told to drop you at the turnstiles and then drive away, you know there's a high chance of trouble. In terms of the safe standing coming back, I asked jerzeypie what he thought of it as he has grown up with the Vic as an all-seater stadium and he said that he would do it for one game just to say that he'd tried it, then would probably go back to sitting down. Could there be the possibility of those doing it on a regular basis only being of a certain age range?
I'm afraid you've got me there Barry. I left England in 1989 - so I was speaking about their old grounds. I lived in Burslem between 76 and 79 so my memories of Stoke are not exactly current. Also, nobody really hates Watford,apart from Luton, and so Watford fans have never really been singled out for abuse in the way that others have. I also think that I would not have become hooked on football, and Watford, at an early age if I had had to pay out for seating whilst still at School - and I think that this applies to lots of us on here. So I want the chance of affordable football for todays teenagers, in the same way that I had that chance.
I stood at games for many years...certainly long enough to remember some fairly threatening and unpleasant experiences - the worst at Chelsea (and that was in the away end) but some ugly assaults and missile throwing at Highbury and Craven Cottage (Man United and Pompey fans respectively).
Funnily enough the worst trouble I experienced was standing at the smaller grounds with no segregation where policing was often inadequate or non-existent. Grounds such as Gigg Lane (Bury), Edgeley Park, (Stockport County), Eastville (Bristol Rovers), Boundary Park (Oldham), Victoria Ground (Hartlepool), Field Mill (Mansfield), Fellows Park (Walsall) & Deepdale (Preston) all spring to mind where Watford fans have been embroiled in pretty ugly clashes in years gone by. There were also the perennial "|tough" grounds where wearing colours was not recommended - Ninian Park (Cardiff), Cold Blow Lane (Millwall of course), Turf Moor (Burnley), Hillsborough (Sheff Wed), St Andrews (Birmingham), Victoria Ground (Stoke) and even Upton Park (that East London "Academy" of Football - and home of violent racist thugs). There were however quite a few grounds where you could stand reasonably happily wearing your colours and not be bothered other than by the odd chant - Leyton Orient, Brentford, Colchester, Bristol City, Baseball Ground Derby, Elm Park Reading were all grounds that I could feel comfortable in. Of course, others may well have had their worst experiences at some of these grounds! I suspect that even if standing (with or without rail seats) was reintroduced it would be subject to so many restrictions (e.g. inability to move around to chat with friends nearby) that it just wouldn't be the same as the "old days" - maybe just as well.....
