Off Topic The SIR Kenny Dalglish Public House

Lots of #conspiracyloon in here.

 

actually these are facts. a conspiracy theory is thinking a gorup of peoepl are doing something in secret so you are mixing up your insults

this is all in the pblic domain.
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n372
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/16/...a-johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-intl/index.html

anyway

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55534727 is has been detected here.

As I said if I could have a choice it would be for a vaccine that working and I think peoepl will be back for a new vaccine in septemebr. IMO astra will be back saying they've a "booster" by about may for approval.

 

As far as I'm aware, it's a nigh on impossibility to protect against a virus, it's why you have to have a flue jab every year.

Regardless of which vaccine you have now, it will mutate and need to be "boosted" in the future.

I think its only small pox that has been wiped out. Everything else generally ebbs and flows, people learn to live with it.

 

the funny thing is they were talking about 80-90% effective rate and people moaning not realising that the flu vaccine they get every year is only about 50-60% effective.

they should have not said anything about the % and just said it’s more effective than the flu jab you get. People wouldn’t be that fussed then

 

Yep, the only one. I was only reading this yesterday

 

They tell you you'll need a second one when they give you the first.

 

I had the first round of the AZ one, after reading about its supposed effectiveness against the new strains I'd be lying if the thought not to bother with the second round hadn't crossed my mind. I'm back towards the end of April for that. The WHO say that it's efficacy is around 63% which doesn't seem great either, whereas the Pfizer one is as much as 95% after two doses (52% after one), same for Moderna. This is all still so much in its early stages that I don't think that we can even ascribe much meaning or significance to these percentages.

All the government and media talk is of the way out of this and when will it end. That's being sold to the populace as coming once everyone has been vaccinated and they've brought the numbers right down, but that's far from the end of it. This will/has become a common, seasonal virus and personally I don't believe that these first doses of vaccine are going to give lifelong, lasting immunity. We've already seen these new strains emerge so if they're vaccinating against the currently prevalent native one that's fine for now but there's no way of saying that another strain and another will in turn become the dominant ones. I can see that being very possible. I do think the vaccines are safe, but it's hard not to feel like some kind of test subject.

In terms of what it could be like when you get vaccinated. I'm a young(ish) person and got one because of the nature of my job. I had the reported sore arm for several days, sore as in you don't even want to touch it or wash it. Accompanying that I had a fever (sweating but freezing cold, then too hot), general aches and pains and a headache for just over a day. Immediately after they injected me I felt a bit off, just a bit hot and flustered. They tell you not to drive for 15 minutes after so I sat in my car and my nose started pouring. I'm prepared to go through that again in April but I don't enjoy the prospect of this becoming an annual thing where they're just pumping the newest formulations into you and you can look forward to feeling like **** for it.

 

again. I'm not talking about your first or second doses.

but if peoepl really want to shut down something i suggest just saying shut up and piss off rather than dancing round it

 

I would still get your other dose mate. You should be encouraged by your body's response as you've had a really strong immune repsonse so the first dose worked a treat

The statistics in Isreal are very encouraging as a "mass" study in real life for Pfizer. however we don't know the strains that dominate there of the top of our heads.

the issue here is about;

first the type of replication the virus does
second how rapidly it mutates.
finally the amount of immune response the body generates


Something like polio or measles is a stable virus that doesn't change much and they repleicate by destroying cells so the body can have anitbodies and kill it off and you get a huge immune response that would take a lifetime to fall off (cells remembr and produce the protein antibody)

We have already seen covid rapidly mutates, ergo what is mutating is the key concern.

We have the data and south africa is already moving to say no to astra and move to J&J. this is why I say we will in all probabaility be back in spetember for another round of astra jabs and proabably have to pay ourselves. Theres a varient already that astra is ineffective against. its a fact. the guys in oxford say they are confident to have very quickly a new jab as they have all the basics for it.

Moderna and Pfizer so far are said to be still effective. I would perfer just the one round of doses myself.


We should also look to SARS. It actually bascially vanished rather than spread back when it first emerged due to getting a clamp on it so i would still be hopeful that enough immunity will exist to general corona thatthis is pushed back to nuicense disease level and over 50s or 60s need boosters.

 

Shut up and piss off.

 

Exactly. We just have to mitigate the problem as best we can and keep the casualties to a minimum until we do. Anyone expecting a miracle cure is probably going to be disappointed - we may be dealing with this and having to adjust our lifestyles accordingly for a long time to come.

 

It’ll end up like usual flu. Something we live with, people unfortunately die from it each year but we have a yearly jab on offer for the most vulnerable.

 

I was just putting some music up (Horace Andy) and wondered if anyone has heard from Skylarker?

 

Not for a long time

 

@Libby probably your best bet as they had each others phone numbers - well i assume they did as they went to watch a Saints game together
Oh & Sky met Deidre Barlow on the train .

 

Had my Covid jab.

 

Have you turned into a three-headed monster?

 

How did you guess

Just read back a bit to see you've all been discussing the vaccine. I had Pfizer. As saint rightly said, you don't get a choice. I think the brand of vaccine you get largely depends on where (location) you get it and the facility they have to store it at sub zero temperatures. I had mine at a local medical centre, directed by my GP. It's a very modern centre and is taking patients from the surrounding GP's on two days a week specifically set up just for vaccinations.

I have researched the different vaccines and the AstraZeneca is unique in that it uses a live virus derived from chimpanzee cold/flu virus and that's why you're more likely to have a side effect. The Pfizer and Moderna - forgive me if I don't get this bit quite right - took the genetic code of Covid/SARS and replicated it so the body thinks it has Covid and produces antibodies, no live virus is in the Pfizer or Moderna. I don't understand the science behind it but that makes them more effective and much better able to deal with mutations of Covid.

It's not fair to have a competition between which vaccine is best especially when we've waited so long - well it seems a long time. They will all offer protection and that's a relief.

 

nice one

heopfully you will now be part of the 90% success rate which is already hugely positive news.


yes Pfizer is a small section of RNA form the virus for making the spike that attaches to cells. This is replicated and wraped in a lipd (fat) shell.

No virus is ever alive, they are either viable or not. The astra one is perfectly safe, they take as you said a cold virus and have weakened it then inserted again the required rna to make it look and act like corona.

The level of reaction is not necessarally releated to design but releated to immune response. if you get a sore arm or a fever or such it is in general a good sign. Severe reactions not so much obviously. It means your B cells have recognised the invader and have reacted so the momey of this is locked in.

Anyway, the issue with the mutations is what exactly mutates.

If the corona virus has the same protein spikes that attach to cells, then our new immune system B cells will produce the same learned antibodies and these will block the virus from attacking cells

One of the most dangerous issues with Covid is our own T cells go into hyperdrive killing cells

B cells contain the memory so its about having these in enough quantity trhough the two boosters that gives protection.

the polio vaccine for example lasts 200 years accroding to research of how the drop off of cells is observed. We don't know how far covid vaccines will go yet.

finally my point on Astra is this; Theres already a proven virus variant that renders it ineffective that has been detected here.

Anyway: its a record development time and a HUGE success story. We should be thankful to the peoepl in china that released the genetic code wihtout their governments wishes. We have seen unprecidented speed based on prior research.

Its still <1year since cases were confirmed in the UK well before first lockdown timing. It feels a long time but in the grand scheme of things it is like lightening.

sadly if we had the balls to close the airports totally and shut down sports etc this could have been far less. In even june we had it down enough that summer hols etc could have been stopped. I personally think air travel as it was will not return. Peopel will try but i can't see it.