I totally agree that we should be looking for a PL quality CB rather than a young player with potential for the future or a 'squad player' for back-up. Hanley has been hugely improved this season (our second highest rated player after Emi on WhoScored at 7.2), especially when playing alongside Gibson, so I'm reluctant to say that he isn't PL quality - as Rob and canario say, there were too many other factors last season. Godfrey is a tremendous prospect, but IMO his lack of height and experience cost us in the PL, as did having to play DMs at CB. Gibson (6.94) does have height and experience as well as being left-footed, which we've lacked since Bassong left. He and Hanley have formed a good partnership so far and we need to see how that develops. The defence has also been strengthened by Krul's improvement (6.96) and the addition of Quintilla (6.84). Sørensen (6.87) has developed into the role of LB as cover, but opposing teams have also targeted our left side knowing that he's playing out of position. This was particularly clear at Watford, where he was tormented by Sarr, definitely a PL player, having cost Watford £30m. To survive in the PL we'll need quality in depth, rather than depending on players playing out of position. We have reasonable quality in attack and midfield, but need that in defence as well.
Then you have either deliberately or accidentally missed the point. He had half a season with Blackburn when he was what, 21? But that's completely irrelevant to what was being discussed. You said "the one thing we do know as regards our CBs is that Hanley is not EPL quality". Canario said, and I agree, that this is absurd - we might think it's likely (I would probably tend to agree) - but to suggest it is definitely known is blatantly untrue.
I wasn't overly fussed when we sold him, I would have liked us to get another CB in, but though people rated Godfrey a lot I always thought he would make too many mistakes that would lead to a goal. It's what happens with young players and last year we didn't have enough experience (or no fit) defenders to help the team along
You can read my post how you like and draw whatever conclusions you want, but as usual your talking nonsense. Interestingly you focus on a single post in a string of posts and then use that out of context, a bit like your stats, to try and score a point. So to the boredom of everyone else and just to satisfy you the conversation was. So clearly I've said that he's one of our more experienced PL players. As he only feature in 15 games last season he couldn't have been one of our more experienced PL players, if he'd only played in the PL last season. My reference to the last 3 seasons was clearly in response to Oxcanary comment that he agreed with you that Hanley wasn't a PL player on the bases of the contrast of his performance over the last 3 seasons. Playing for Scotland is hardly playing at a higher level and his performances whilst playing for an international team are not really comparable to those of playing regularly for a club. The last time he played in the PL, prior to last season was in 2011 / 12 when he made 23 appearances at the age of 20 / 21, which is incredibly young for a CB. He also played in the PL in the 2 seasons before that. As Rob says it is arguable that as a CB at top 26 club level his best years may still be to come.
Ever wish you had never posted something! For the record I have carefully read what others have said and have shifted my opinion to Not proven
Handley isn't that good compared to Gibson and Zimmerman is not PL quality either . A decent defender next to Gibson would be a must for me if we want to progress. Zimmermann was a free agent and tremendous servant to the club Handley may make the step up but IF we go up but I would feel more positive with an upgrade . £8m for Gibson would be a steal but I believe his and Quintilla's future with us is dependent on promotion . Fail to go up and we will be unlikely to keep them and probably promote from the academy.
I think a lot of people are confused about the role Hanley played in our season in the PL. Whilst we were in the PL he had 2 significant injuries, one to his groin & one to his hamstring, which meant he only played in 15 of our PL games. Of the 15 games he played in we won 3, drew 3 & lost 9. In 6 of the games we lost, we lost by a single goal and got beat more convincingly in the other 3 games by Liverpool, Man Utd & Wolves. In the remaining 23 games that he didn't play in we won 2, drew 3 & lost 18. Of the 18 games we lost, we only lost by a single goal in 6 games, in the other 12 games we got well beat by the likes of Man City, Arsenel. West Ham, Aston Villa & Southampton. In the FA Cup we beat Preston, Burnley & Spurs when he played and went out in the quarter finals to Man U in the only game he didn't play in. In the EFL cup we lost to Crawley, however again he didn't play. Unfortunately a lot of supporters seem to see Hanley as performing worse than a lot of our other players, whilst we were in the PL, which I don't thinks the case. Indeed I would suggest he performed better than most. Either way I fail to see how it can be concluded that, the one thing we do know as regards our CBs is that Hanley is not EPL quality. I think a Hanley / Gibson partnership could work for us in the PL, but would like to see us bring in another CB as competition for them. I also tend to agree with Duncan that Zimmerman is not as good as Hanley or Gibson, although I would be happy to keep him as 4th choice.
Many times Ox! The whole question of what constitutes a PL player is complicated. I cited Sarr as obviously PL quality because Watford paid £30m for him, but his WhoScored rating is 6.99, Watford's highest, but below Hanley's 7.2. Sarr was Sky's MotM when we played them but his WhoScored rating was 7.4, below both Buendia (7.9) and Hanley (7.7). My feeling is that success in the PL is far more dependent on how the team performs rather than the perceived 'quality' of individual players. If a team achieves synergy, then the team performance is greater than the individual 'quality' of the players involved. That was the secret of Lambert's success in our rise through 3 leagues, culminating in PL survival. We achieved that occasionally last season in games against Newcastle, Man City and Leicester, but too often the constant changes caused by injuries prevented that. As captain, Hanley contributes to synergy both on and off the pitch. He's a motivator and that contributes to the overall performance. We need that if we are to compete in the PL eventually.
I like Handley and he's still young enough to improve with a decent pairing. I have been critical of the club for not signing class centre backs for years but Gibson has been a fantastic signing, I would keep Zimmerman and Handley as the 4 options but an upgrade would probably be smart business IF we get promoted. I really don't like the assumption that we have already gone up there is a long way to go with this season with more twists and turns along the way . Keeping our players grounded during the transfer window is going to be our next challenge and retaining Buendia is key to our success. I think most other clubs would like to have our problems. Top of the league with a young talented squad that everyone wants to sign. Skipp will be in the Spurs squad next season and we need a replacement for him he's integral to our success and an ever present .
In 2016, Hanley, then coming up to 25, and with 4 more full seasons behind him at Blackburn, was signed by newly relegated Newcastle. They clearly saw him initially as having the potential to play in the EPL, giving him a long contract. In the event he only made 10 appearances in the Toon's Championship winning side, and none the season after in the EPL. He was in competition for a CB berth with Clark, Dummett and Lascelles, none of them any more than average EPL CBs, and never managed to stake his claim. We rescued him the following season. I may be thought to know nothing, but few would say the same of Rafa Benitez.
That'll be the same Rafa Benitez who was manager of Newcastle when they signed Hanley on a 5 year contract in July 2016 will it.
Jose Mourinho sold Kevin De Bruyne when he was at Chelsea. Does that mean because Mourinho didn't rate him he isn't good enough for the PL ?
He's been decent this season. If he could get his headers on target he could be a decent attacking threat
This is getting ridiculous. To repeat: "There's ample evidence in GH's career history warranting the conclusion that he's no more than a good Championship quality defender."
That's your interpretation Robbie, but I'm far more interested in what he's doing now. CBs do not operate in isolation and need to be judged as part of a partnership and then a defence as a whole. You clearly feel that it's your role to dismiss perfectly reasonable counter arguments without considering them. Clearly you feel that your view is the only one that matters. That's what looks ridiculous to me.
To return to the debate about the perceived improvement in our defending, if you compare this season so far with the 2018-2019 season at the same half way stage, our xGa is actually worse this season, 30.6 as against 24.8 (data from Experimental 3-6-1).
I am sorry, but what??? You are now, as usual, massively moving the goalposts. Ciaran Clark is a decent level CB and was an experienced premier league defender when he joined a relegated with Newcastle, they paid about the same as they did for Hanley. And he's ever since (injuries aside) played for Newcastle. No shame in not playing ahead of him. Lascelles is absolutely class! I reckon Newcastle wouldn't sell him for £25m. So four years ago Hanley couldn't break that partnership? So what. As I said above, on balance I would say Hanley is not likely to be good enough for the Premier League. Mostly because he has not played successfully and consistently there, nor has any club decided to bring him to the Premier League. But you were foolish enough to say he is demonstrably not good enough. We are pointing out that is not the case, especially given his continued improvement, seeming remedy of his fitness/injury woes and the fact he is now in his prime. If your pride could just swallow itself for a moment and accept you overstated the position, it would make this all a bit easier. As it is you are now scrambling.
