It never gets old. Trust me.
One year we even managed to lose our spot long after the season ended. That was exciting.
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The Run In
- Thread starter Spurf
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It never gets old. Trust me.
One year we even managed to lose our spot long after the season ended. That was exciting.
Agreed but our players cost less and are prepared to play for lower wages so there is a good probability that they will be less good"But they are all likely to be correlated with the fact that our players are not as good as the ones in the top 4 teams!"
As there is no objective measure of "as good as" , difficult to generate an measure of the minimum overall "good"
value exhibited by the PL teams who get the PL slots.
I see Robbie Savage has given his views. Has us 4 points beind Pool at the end (and 1 behind Utd) in 6th. Only needs 2 results to change in our favour and we are there. What points do people see us ending on?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31837491
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31837491
He's probably not far off and he's right about our defence.
Not sure what he's talking about when he claims Liverpool have improved and we haven't changed managers, though. Odd.
I'd be pretty happy with 69 points and 6th. Bit disappointing, but it'd represent a very respectable first season for Pochettino.
Build on it in the summer by keeping our key players and strengthening the squad and we'd be looking good, I think.
I've been slated for my negative opinion. Hate to say I told u all so.
Not good enough for top 4 by a mile.
There will be plenty of twists and turns yet. You could look at all the top four contenders at various points of the season and say that they aren't good enough.
What was lacking today was leadership. Spurs' "go to" players are young and inexperienced. Kane and Eriksen have proved adept at taking opportunities when presented, but in games when it needs someone to read the game and change its course, Spurs are lacking.
There was a tactical naivety today. Playing a high line was a weakness early on. Nobody saw this. Walker and Rose are better going forward than defending, yet sat back giving the team no momentum going forward and allowing Utd to push wide players up. Carrick was allowed time and space to dictate play.
But Utd played far better than usual with a high tempo, pace and movement. Not many teams are going to pose that threat. Spurs extra quality will make the difference in many games, as it has done frequently over the past few months. You have an easier run of fixtures than most so it's not all lost yet, although other results do need to go for you.
Its no surprise to see us lose the big games and fall away from a top four challenge as we have already peaked under the leadership of Redknapp/Levy and once that partnership ended, we're now just "contenders" (on paper) for top four , yet the ship has sailed and each season Chelsea, City, Utd will be top 3. That leaves The goons, Liverpool, us and Everton as contenders, with lesser teams such as Saints and West Brom making threats to challenge, but never being serious contenders.
For us, we can't compete with the goons (while Wenger is there), Liverpool will always be in serious contention, while Everton are similar to us in the sense they may look to be in with a shout but when it comes down to the big games, they fall away and this year their league campaign has been hampered by the Europa League, although Redknapp did tell everyone that being in the Europa league impacts the challenge for top four (as AVB found out).
Anyway, Pochettino had us playing terrible football for most part of the season and it was Harry Kane, Nacer Chadli or Christian Eriksen inspired performances which have allowed fans to forget them performances and as we saw against Utd (and other matches) we're an average team, with an average manager that has been knocked out of all domestic cups, dumped out of Europe and fighting to finish 6th.
For us, we can't compete with the goons (while Wenger is there), Liverpool will always be in serious contention, while Everton are similar to us in the sense they may look to be in with a shout but when it comes down to the big games, they fall away and this year their league campaign has been hampered by the Europa League, although Redknapp did tell everyone that being in the Europa league impacts the challenge for top four (as AVB found out).
Anyway, Pochettino had us playing terrible football for most part of the season and it was Harry Kane, Nacer Chadli or Christian Eriksen inspired performances which have allowed fans to forget them performances and as we saw against Utd (and other matches) we're an average team, with an average manager that has been knocked out of all domestic cups, dumped out of Europe and fighting to finish 6th.
Nice to see you back Boss, we can't be an average team and finish 6th btw that's above average.
We had an average team when Gerry Francis was here and finished 2 points behind 4th
But thanks Spurf
.......But you understand, average compared to the other teams we're meant to be competing with. If we compare us with Swansea and Stoke then yes we're above average but if you compare our team with the top 4 then we're average.
Yes there are factors like finance etc but we did have a team in recent years that was viewed as missing 1-2 players away from matching the best. Now we're way behind and thats why I view as being as an average team.
We had an average team when Gerry Francis was here and finished 2 points behind 4th
But thanks Spurf
.......But you understand, average compared to the other teams we're meant to be competing with. If we compare us with Swansea and Stoke then yes we're above average but if you compare our team with the top 4 then we're average.
Yes there are factors like finance etc but we did have a team in recent years that was viewed as missing 1-2 players away from matching the best. Now we're way behind and thats why I view as being as an average team.
And we will always be up against the bigger financial clout of United Chelsea and Man City. The new stadium will help but our biggest chance is with home produced players and we are stronger in this area than we have been for a long time. Optimism is not misplaced at this time.
Spurf, as Sherwood said "you don't always have to look outside the club and sometimes youth players just need a chance" and adding to that Pochettino gets credit for being brave enough to carry on Sherwoods work and allow Bentaleb, Mason and Kane to become important squad players.
Still, If we look at the only time we actually finished top four (PL era), it was when we had an experienced manager managing the club his way. Outside of that, every attempt to finish top four has been a failure and until we bring in experience to work along the youth then that is all we are, contenders that will always fail and the danger is while we're waiting for our youth to become great, other clubs will move further ahead.
Still, If we look at the only time we actually finished top four (PL era), it was when we had an experienced manager managing the club his way. Outside of that, every attempt to finish top four has been a failure and until we bring in experience to work along the youth then that is all we are, contenders that will always fail and the danger is while we're waiting for our youth to become great, other clubs will move further ahead.
I believe we are miles behind the 'big 5'.
We won't get 4th EVER with these owners, manager, director of football or most of these players.
The transfer dealings have been awful - only one of MoPo's first 11 is his signing (out of 7) and only 2 are starting from the Bale money.
If Ade, Soldado, Paulinho, Lamela and Kaboul never played again I wouldn't be bothered. Not far behind are Rose, Fazio, Capoue and Chiriches and some might add Walker, Bentaleb, Dembele and Chadli. We've assembled the greatest NON -SCORING squad of midfielders ever.
Are Defoe, Dawson , Siggi and Dempsey & Lennon really worse than the above?
The pattern of play is flawed - Rose and Walker's final ball is generally poor yet they are the players providing the width and the ball in - look at the CCF and Arsenal at home in the first half - we got nothing out of their attacking and then at the back they are often out of position or make mistakes.
Where is Yedlin - the anonymous man of WHL !
We are in a right mess and if we don't / can't invest properly/heavily while the ground is being built we will be struggling.
Work on the basis of how many of our players would get in the other big teams 1st 11 and look at our record when we play the teams above us over the last 10 years - especially away - it is grim - no win at home over Utd since 2001, or away at Chelski since 1992.
We get in a right muddle with the competitions - Kane played 1/2 hour against Fiorentina - which were bigger games than the League Cup Final.
You don't keep or attract players based on winning a League Cup but you might if you get in the CL
MoPo in my opinion has got no chance and is out of his depth - this isn't Espanyol or Soton (who we beat twice last year having gone behind in both games) and how he hasn't come in for lots of criticism is beyond me.
I am very concerned about where we are going and where we will be in 3 years especially if we lose Eriksen and/or Kane.
We won't get 4th EVER with these owners, manager, director of football or most of these players.
The transfer dealings have been awful - only one of MoPo's first 11 is his signing (out of 7) and only 2 are starting from the Bale money.
If Ade, Soldado, Paulinho, Lamela and Kaboul never played again I wouldn't be bothered. Not far behind are Rose, Fazio, Capoue and Chiriches and some might add Walker, Bentaleb, Dembele and Chadli. We've assembled the greatest NON -SCORING squad of midfielders ever.
Are Defoe, Dawson , Siggi and Dempsey & Lennon really worse than the above?
The pattern of play is flawed - Rose and Walker's final ball is generally poor yet they are the players providing the width and the ball in - look at the CCF and Arsenal at home in the first half - we got nothing out of their attacking and then at the back they are often out of position or make mistakes.
Where is Yedlin - the anonymous man of WHL !
We are in a right mess and if we don't / can't invest properly/heavily while the ground is being built we will be struggling.
Work on the basis of how many of our players would get in the other big teams 1st 11 and look at our record when we play the teams above us over the last 10 years - especially away - it is grim - no win at home over Utd since 2001, or away at Chelski since 1992.
We get in a right muddle with the competitions - Kane played 1/2 hour against Fiorentina - which were bigger games than the League Cup Final.
You don't keep or attract players based on winning a League Cup but you might if you get in the CL
MoPo in my opinion has got no chance and is out of his depth - this isn't Espanyol or Soton (who we beat twice last year having gone behind in both games) and how he hasn't come in for lots of criticism is beyond me.
I am very concerned about where we are going and where we will be in 3 years especially if we lose Eriksen and/or Kane.
SPURSTILIDIE , Nice to see someone Negative (and honest) 
The play is flawed, Pochettino's methods are flawed and its simply because we played to an outstanding level in two home games, Chelsea and Arsenal, oh and also QPR (but that was more the opposition) yet all three london Derbies and if we where capable of playing as we did (agaisnt arsenal) then why aren't we playing to that standard on a regular basis?
As soon as I see Walker on the wing and he attempts to link up with Townsend, its the same old ****e! Step over, faints to go outside, moves back, gets nowhere while Townsend is roaming and trying to make intelligent runs! Comical at times but not to be that harsh on Walker as he does get stick often ahead of other players, but there is a pattern, as Walker, Rose, Ekotto (previous), all full backs and all get slated once they make mistakes, usually ahead of other players who deserve blame also.
The play is flawed, Pochettino's methods are flawed and its simply because we played to an outstanding level in two home games, Chelsea and Arsenal, oh and also QPR (but that was more the opposition) yet all three london Derbies and if we where capable of playing as we did (agaisnt arsenal) then why aren't we playing to that standard on a regular basis?
As soon as I see Walker on the wing and he attempts to link up with Townsend, its the same old ****e! Step over, faints to go outside, moves back, gets nowhere while Townsend is roaming and trying to make intelligent runs! Comical at times but not to be that harsh on Walker as he does get stick often ahead of other players, but there is a pattern, as Walker, Rose, Ekotto (previous), all full backs and all get slated once they make mistakes, usually ahead of other players who deserve blame also.
I refuse to write us off this year until its mathematically impossible for us to make it. Liverpool, Arsenal and City, United and Southampton all have opportunities to take points off each other and of course we have the Southampton and City games to attempt to take advantage of too. If we pick it up then we have as good a chance of making 4th as any of those, none of the other teams are without their own problems. I know I'll get slated for that optimism and it is probably misplaced but whatever. Everyone has opinions and that is just mine. Boss you'll disagree I think!
SPURSTILIDIE I get a lot of what you're saying. Even someone like myself who thinks Pochettino is going to prove a hit with us can see that there are problems. The Bale money signings have been hit and miss, dissent about Levy et al at the top of the club has faded a little since they really came into prominence earlier this season but many of the issues are still there. On the pitch, Pochettino's style of play is at risk of being a 'one size fits all' way of playing the game which in theory should always work but in practice doesn't always play out like that. I hope he learns and can learn to adapt, or at least make changes within the system like he failed to do until too late against United on Sunday. Thats part of the issue with employing a young coach - they're still learning. We went for an experienced head in LVG and the rug was pulled from under us by United, just like bigger clubs generally snap up bigger players. Who is to know that Frank de Boer wouldn't have had problems just like Pochettino, van Gaal himself is having problems at United. What coach is perfect in their first year with an often uncooperative club Chairman and one of the youngest squads in the league anyway.
In summary: 1. there are big issues at this club, I'm not just trying to preach blind optimism here 2. I think we still have a shot at top 4 (yes I probably am deluded) 3. I think Pochettino can see some (but not all of the problems) and is trying to fix them within the constraints of his position 4. I hope Pochettino comes to see the problems on the pitch he is less good at identifying quickly, and moves to sort them too. I am mixed on whether I believe he actually will
SPURSTILIDIE I get a lot of what you're saying. Even someone like myself who thinks Pochettino is going to prove a hit with us can see that there are problems. The Bale money signings have been hit and miss, dissent about Levy et al at the top of the club has faded a little since they really came into prominence earlier this season but many of the issues are still there. On the pitch, Pochettino's style of play is at risk of being a 'one size fits all' way of playing the game which in theory should always work but in practice doesn't always play out like that. I hope he learns and can learn to adapt, or at least make changes within the system like he failed to do until too late against United on Sunday. Thats part of the issue with employing a young coach - they're still learning. We went for an experienced head in LVG and the rug was pulled from under us by United, just like bigger clubs generally snap up bigger players. Who is to know that Frank de Boer wouldn't have had problems just like Pochettino, van Gaal himself is having problems at United. What coach is perfect in their first year with an often uncooperative club Chairman and one of the youngest squads in the league anyway.
In summary: 1. there are big issues at this club, I'm not just trying to preach blind optimism here 2. I think we still have a shot at top 4 (yes I probably am deluded) 3. I think Pochettino can see some (but not all of the problems) and is trying to fix them within the constraints of his position 4. I hope Pochettino comes to see the problems on the pitch he is less good at identifying quickly, and moves to sort them too. I am mixed on whether I believe he actually will
This is the most promising team we have had for many years. The infusion of academy players a great boost for the clubs youth players and a great sign for the future. We have at last a manager who adapts to the moment and has a clear and exciting plan for the way forward. For once some fans need to look a little ahead instead of reacting in a knee jerk manner to the latest set back. How did Chelsea respond to the thrashing they received from this Spurs team? How did Arsenal respond to being comprehensively outplayed by this Spurs team?
Look to the future with this young progressive team.
Look to the future with this young progressive team.
I've had the opinion that we peaked under the ownership of Levy, with that occurring when Redknapp was manager, as Redknapp showed Levy for us to reach top four there has to be flexibility in transfers and the best way is a combination of Levys methods and Redknapps methods.
Since then we have resorted back to the head coach with a suit arranging the transfers, the continental way, which works on the continent, so I understand why Levy has been a fan of this system, just when Redknapp left and I saw the route we where looking to go down, my opinion was we would never reach top four again while Levy was in charge and we missed a chance to strengthen when we had a grip of top four.
It won't be a surprise if Baldini leaves the club soon and next season after a poor start and more failed signings we're looking for a new manager. That (for me) is more likely then us reaching the top four!
Still, Huddlefro, I get why you and others see optimism as we have a young squad, currently a young manager, Eriksen and Kane are two stars of this season, plus its great to see Mason and Bentaleb in the team. There are positives yet I believe we have reached our overall level, which is now the occasional cup run, the odd fantastic result and we may threaten to finish 4th but always fail.