1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

The revolution has begun at Arsenal

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by PINKIE, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. Bodinki

    Bodinki You're welcome
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,987
    Likes Received:
    14,500
    Makes no odds to them, they sign a 4 year deal, get sacked after 18 months of frustration and walk away with £4m.
    Sounds okay to me.
     
    #61
  2. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    115,799
    Likes Received:
    64,353
    Yeah I reckon that’s top of the list of priorities for Europe’s top managers <laugh>
     
    #62
  3. Bodinki

    Bodinki You're welcome
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,987
    Likes Received:
    14,500
    Then why do they keep queueing up to take the job then? <laugh>
     
    #63
  4. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,338
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Foolishness? If our management got their finger out and saw past Wenger, then i can see us compete with you lot no problem. If anything we are a more desirable place to come to. Larger stadium, fan base, revenue and stability. Our dependence on Wenger has stagnated our progress for quite sometime.

    But if we let Wenger see out his contract despite him having another poor PL season, then this signals shortsightedness from our management. This would be worrying.
     
    #64
  5. Bodinki

    Bodinki You're welcome
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,987
    Likes Received:
    14,500
    You have a larger stadium (for now).....as for the rest.....
    Our fan base is twice the size of yours (worldwide)
    Our revenues are more or less identical
    Not sure what stability means, if you mean stability in managers, then yes, you are more stable, to your detriment, but thats the point I was making, taking the Chelsea job is a win-win for a manager, he either does well and gets paid a **** load of money, or does badly....and gets paid a **** load of money.
     
    #65
  6. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,338
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Not sure where you get double the size of our fanbase worldwide, especially as it's hard to pin down. What we can be sure of is revenue, we are 2 places higher than you in the Deloitte's ratings, at 6th place, Chelsea 8th. Stability in terms of giving support to the manager without the drama. Since Roman came in, it's been generally quite turbulent for new managers coming in, the fact that we are talking about Conte leaving a year after winning the PL is damning.

    I stand by what i said, if a manager was to chose between Arsenal and Chelsea, they would chose Arsenal. We could match the wages you offer, Wenger is on £8.5m a year, for what, winning a few domestic cups and being a non-existent title and CL challenger. He gets paid more than Conte, whos actually won the PL on his first try, but still on £6.5m https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...manager-wages-salary-2017-2018-sportgalleries. But the real selling point is that it's a better place to work in, we have less drama and the manager can get on with it. A lot of people still rate what Wenger once achieved with us and would love the chance to take over from a legend. As much as i want him to go, his past achievements is what has created our recent large fan base, just imagine what will happen when we start winning big again.
     
    #66
  7. Bodinki

    Bodinki You're welcome
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,987
    Likes Received:
    14,500
    I guess, especially with our recent reputation of treating managers like ****.
    The only thing that would put managers off Arsenal is following in Arsene's footsteps, since he has been there for so long.
    Not debating that a manager would have a much better time of it at Arsenal, just saying despite all the **** our managers go through, we never seem to have difficulty finding decent candidates for the job.
     
    #67
  8. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,338
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Don't get me wrong, Chelsea is a desirable place to come to for many reasons that's why you get so many top managers in. But you need to put a stop to all this manager merry-go round, otherwise you'll end up with a lasting negative reputation.

    It will be interesting to see where we go post Wenger. I'm hoping that it isn't detrimental to the new manager coming in. Also, how and what is Silent Stan's input into Arsenal? You could never tell what was happening behind the scenes with Wenger, but we may have a clearer idea with the new manager.
     
    #68
  9. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,268
    Likes Received:
    271
    I don't have a problem with people wanting him gone, but I think that it has just got a little silly now. It is a bit like Trump at the moment, when the stock market was up, it wasn't anything to do with him, as soon as it crashed it was all his fault. It makes no sense.

    Anyway, I really don't think changing the Arsenal manager is going to make a whole lot of difference, but he isn't going to be manager for long, so it makes no sense for him to do the rebuild at this point, and waste a whole load of money that the new manager might want to spend differently.
     
    #69
  10. blukyt

    blukyt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    278
    Are you saying goings on on the pitch (good or bad) are not down to him first? What do you mean by the statement?
     
    #70

  11. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    27,301
    Likes Received:
    13,078
    Unless that fanbase is filled with Ty clones, tis difficult to measure
    the relationship between them and the club bottom line.

    You don't know how many TV subscriptions are being sold
    overseas due to a supporter of your club wanting to watch you.
    Similarly for the up-sell your sponsors get on their products
    from said supporters, whether they attend or watch on TV.


    "Stability in terms of giving support to the manager without the drama. Since Roman came in, it's been generally quite turbulent for new managers coming in, the fact that we are talking about Conte leaving a year after winning the PL is damning."

    Pat Nevin called it (at the time of RdM getting the boot)
    the "Chelsea business model" , and said it obviously "works" .
    Perhaps so, but Roman seems to be tightening the purse
    strings (certainly not matching the Mancs literally pound for
    pound) , so perhaps the "model" is starting to creak.
     
    #71
    Bodinki likes this.
  12. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,338
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Wenger determined to stay - BBC
    Monsieur Wenger is clearly not expecting to leave Arsenal any time soon, despite the club's sixth place in the Premier League and elimination from the FA Cup by Nottingham Forest.

    The 68-year-old signed a new two-year deal last summer and said last night: "I have always respected my contracts. I would like to remind you I said no to all the biggest clubs in the world to respect my contract so that's always what I try to do.

    "After that we have as well to accept in our job that the future is the future but for me that's to win the next game. We have to perform better in every single game and show until the end of the season a complete hunger to win every single game. That's what it's about for us."

    Well that confirms it, he's staying for another season. Oh well, looks like the revolution will have to wait another year...

    Also by the sounds of it, we are a bunch of ingrates. I guess we should be happy with potentially a 6th place finish. All hail Wenger!
     
    #72
  13. white_gunner

    white_gunner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    704
    Not a surprise, as I said it’s all about next season - There must be a CLEAR message from the fans NO NEW CONTRACT. And then we will FINALLY be able to look to the future and get a new manager in.
     
    #73
  14. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,268
    Likes Received:
    271
    Well I think that absolutely not. I believe what goes on, on the pitch, is absolutely about the players first. A manager can influence the game with substitutions and tactics, but he is pretty much expected to get those tactics right and even if he does get the right tactics he isn't even close to being guaranteed a victory. On the other hand, if every player on the pitch plays a perfect game, or even a good game, or even a mistake free game, they are more or less guaranteed victory, regardless of tactics, or substitutions.

    As for off the pitch, I think signings are very much in the hands of the players now. Managers have to be very open-minded and sign the players who are available and prepared to go to a club, for the money the club can pay.

    I suspect the most influence a manager has on a club is in the youth system, and that is something we don't talk about much.
     
    #74
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  15. winifred122

    winifred122 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    355
    Conte for me - already said that on another
     
    #75
    lazarus20000 likes this.
  16. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,338
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    So by your logic we could get in Sam Alardyce and nothing will change because it's the players fault? I understand that the changes in the game have made things tougher for managers but to ignore the fact that managers like Poch, Pep and Klopp haven't made a difference with the players is wrong.

    Wenger when he first came in made a huge impact on not only us but the Premiership as a whole. He revolutionised what we see in today's English game and he is the main guy responsible for making Arsenal into a huge global brand. Somehow I don't think someone like big Sam would have made quite the same impact.
     
    #76
  17. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,268
    Likes Received:
    271
    Why do people always restate your post and say something that you were not saying. It is like the Jordan Peterson interview with Cathy Newman, "So you're saying...."

    No, I said that Managers don't make the main difference, not that they make no difference. That should be obvious from what I wrote.

    Let me do it back to you. So you are saying that if Pep takes over Bognor Regis, they will beat Manchester United the next day without buying any new players, because the manager is the most important thing?
     
    #77
  18. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,338
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    You're trying to go overboard to make a point. That's why you have leagues and in those you have varying qualities of players. Take Leicester, with out Ranieri, they would never have won the league. He made a huge impact on the players and got them believing they could pull off a miracle. For that one season Ranieri pulled off the unthinkable. Their players were not better than the top 5 teams.

    Now let's look at Wenger, came to Arsenal and inspired us to new levels. Got the older guard to revolutionise the way they saw the game and young talent like Anelka to be one of the best in the league in such a short space of time. He tweaked the system and brought the right players to support his changes. He's now a shadow of his former self.
     
    #78
  19. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,268
    Likes Received:
    271
    That is exactly what you were doing. And you have done it again. Just because he made a difference when he came in nearly 20 years ago, (I've heard lots of people on here point out that he inherited a more or less winning team tho'), it doesn't mean he still makes a massive difference.

    Why are the only alternatives to you, one extreme or the other?
     
    #79
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  20. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,338
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    I'm making no over exaggerations. Leicester winning the title wasn't on anyone's radar but they still had some very good players that Ranieri masterfully put together into a title winning team. As for Wenger he did inherit a solid team but he masterfully tweaked it into a title winning/formidable team, to rival Man U. Wenger currently has some seriously good players in his team and money to bring more In, but he's languishing at 6th place. Is that the fault of the players or the managers inability to get the players to play the way he wants or in the correct system? Probably a bit of all three but ultimately it comes down to him. It's his players, his system and his coaching methods. The same when he finished the season unbeaten with Arsenal.

    When we're talking about the calibre of players of the top 6 teams, there is little difference in quality. All 6 have the quality to win the PL. It's just that Pep has got them playing some amazing football, like Wenger did with Arsenal in his early days.

    If you don't see that then we'll stop the convo there. Agree to disagree.
     
    #80
    blukyt likes this.

Share This Page