Off Topic The QPR Not 606 Rolling Election Poll

[Quality Passing Rules]

I fully sympathise with your situation. Your ire, however, is (at least) partially misplaced.

The reason that clampdowns on whether benefits are truly needed is down to the many benefit cheats in this country. If they didn't screw the taxpayer out of many thousands of pounds that they do not deserve, there would not be the need to try and find them. Unfortunately, the best way to find them is to check everybody on benefit, because there's no magic litmus test. And people like yourself whose condition may not be immediately apparent will come under greater scrutiny. That's not the way it should be, and I do feel for you. But sadly, because of the culture of benefit cheats in this country it's the way it is. A debilitating condition is fairly simple to fake, and only proper scrutiny will weed out the minority that are making life so tough for everyone who really needs the assistance. The alternative is the open-door, open-house policy adopted previously by Labour and which has led to the point we are now at.

I don't disagree with in principle but IDS has taken this way beyond that. I have a major spinal condition that can quite clearly be seen on MRI and X-Rays yet ATOS still deemed was I capable of working with 3 collapsed discs which was clearly compressing the nerves in my spine. The need to weed out the malingerers is needed but the heavy handed way in which it is done and the total refusal to listen to medical personnel which understand these conditions far better than the unqualified or wrongly qualified staff of ATOS is a joke. I was once interviewed by a nurse who had never worked in a orthopaedic department in her career. I myself worked in the NHS in medical capacity and took part in many orthopaedic surgical procedures. Her lack of knowledge was ridiculous. Yet due to her conclusions I found myself having to challenge her findings. I'm just glad it was before the withdrawal of legal aid for these kind of cases. I urge you, please don't be fooled by the deliberate muddying of the water on this by politicians. Go look it up for yourselves. This is one of the most abhorrent cases of deliberate misinformation by politicians of modern times.

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

The problem is that the minority who are fakers have a better state of health from which to fight for benefits.

More vulnerable people who have had medical diagnosis get bullied by people with barely any medical expertise because they're easier targets.

Sorry to hear of your troubles Quality Passing Rules.

Thank mate.

 

[Chaz]

The problem is that the minority who are fakers have a better state of health from which to fight for benefits.

More vulnerable people who have had medical diagnosis get bullied by people with barely any medical expertise because they're easier targets.

Sorry to hear of your troubles Quality Passing Rules.

Sorry, but my own experiences with the NHS have never shown me any 'bullying' or 'targeting'. That's very inflammatory language and I cannot believe it's the way it is done.

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

Sorry, but my own experiences with the NHS have never shown me any 'bullying' or 'targeting'. That's very inflammatory language and I cannot believe it's the way it is done.

Chaz, why would someone with medical qualifications go and work for a company like ATOS if they were any good at their job. Also don't confuse ATOS with the NHS. ATOS was the problem. (The company replacing them is even worse sadly.) The NHS, while having some issues is something we should all be proud of. They have never let me down in all my years of struggling with my condition.

 

[KooPeeArr]

Sorry, but my own experiences with the NHS have never shown me any 'bullying' or 'targeting'. That's very inflammatory language and I cannot believe it's the way it is done.

The comments are aimed at ATOS and their ilk who have the agenda of getting people back into work (or weeding out the frauds uf that makes you happier).

The NHS has no such agenda and their problems are genuine resource issues that I sympathise with.

 

[Chaz]

The comments are aimed at ATOS and their ilk who have the agenda of getting people back into work (or weeding out the frauds uf that makes you happier).

The NHS has no such agenda and their problems are genuine resource issues that I sympathise with.

It's not a case of making me 'happier'. No need to drift from the issues and make negative judgements about other people's viewpoints...

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

It's not a case of making me 'happier'. No need to drift from the issues and make negative judgements about other people's viewpoints...

But Chaz, I think you misinterpreted his point. I think he was pointing out that you mistook our pointing out it is ATOS that is the problem not the NHS. You viewpoint is correct re. the NHS but we aren't talking about the NHS we are talking about ATOS. Two very different things.

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

I fully sympathise with your situation. Your ire, however, is (at least) partially misplaced.

The reason that clampdowns on whether benefits are truly needed is down to the many many benefit cheats in this country. If they didn't screw the taxpayer out of many thousands of pounds that they do not deserve, there would not be the need to try and find them. Unfortunately, the best way to find them is to check everybody on benefit, because there's no magic litmus test. And people like yourself whose condition may not be immediately apparent will come under greater scrutiny. That's not the way it should be, and I do feel for you. But sadly, because of the culture of benefit cheats in this country it's the way it is. A debilitating condition is fairly simple to fake, and only proper scrutiny will weed out the minority that are making life so tough for everyone who really needs the assistance. The alternative is the open-door, open-house policy adopted previously by Labour and which has led to the point we are now at.

After a quick bit of digging and a word with someone I know who campaigns on behalf of the disabled of this country. They came up with this little nugget.

by the govt own figures fraud rates in sickness and disabled benefits is %0.7 so weeding out the small number of fakes is disproportionate to the damaged cause to the %99.3 of claimants!!!

 

[Chaz]

But Chaz, I think you misinterpreted his point. I think he was pointing out that you mistook our pointing out it is ATOS that is the problem not the NHS. You viewpoint is correct re. the NHS but we aren't talking about the NHS we are talking about ATOS. Two very different things.

I actually think he misinterpreted MY point. he seems to think I'm happy with this, when I'm clearly not. ATOS have made mistakes, but my point is still that anybody who thinks that the process is driven by bullying and targeting instead of a) validating real conditions; b) identifying those people who CAN work; and c) identifying those that are cheating the honest people, are at least in part wrong. It's certain that any large organisation will contain overzealous people who go about the job in a way that causes distress and anger, but that's a very small minority that gives the rest a bad name. ANY organisation - the police, the army, the NHS and yes, ATOS, will suffer from this.

It's terrible that you seem to have been caught up in this, but i don't need other members accusing me of being happy about it.

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

More points about food banks...........

another common misconception is that you can just roll up to a food bank and get food coz your skint from having iphone and sky tv....this is just not true...you have to be refered (by social services, gp, police, supposedly job centres but they never do!!) and you can only a 3 day supply of food and you can only get that 3 times per year!! also the very vast majority of reasons cited as to needing food bank was due to sanctions or dwp mis(mal) administration ie not paying on time...delaying compleation of applications for benefits etc

 

[Chaz]

After a quick bit of digging and a word with someone I know who campaigns on behalf of the disabled of this country. They came up with this little nugget.

by the govt own figures fraud rates in sickness and disabled benefits is %0.7 so weeding out the small number of fakes is disproportionate to the damaged cause to the %99.3 of claimants!!!

Probably without the data gathered by ATOS etc, we wouldn't know that. Two sides, and all that. This benefit costs the UK £13.9 billion. Any percentage of that is a lot of money.

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

I actually think he misinterpreted MY point. he seems to think I'm happy with this, when I'm clearly not. ATOS have made 1) mistakes, but my point is still that anybody who thinks that the process is driven 2)by bullying and targeting instead of a) validating real conditions; b) identifying those people who CAN work; and c) identifying those that are cheating the honest people, are at least in part wrong. It's certain that any large organisation will contain 3)overzealous people who go about the job in a way that causes distress and anger, but that's a very small minority that gives the rest a bad name. ANY organisation - the police, the army, the NHS and yes, ATOS, will suffer from this.

It's terrible that you seem to have been caught up in this, but i don't need other members accusing me of being happy about it.

1) It is not a mistake if the company is using unqualified staff to come to conclusions.
2) That is exactly what they do. I have suffered this myself. It's only my own strength of character and medical knowledge that made it difficult for them in my own case but many who don't have my knowledge or strength of character have been abused by the system.
3)It's not being overzealous when there are targets being given from the DWP. How can you have targets for something that in each case should be being taken on it's own merits. Something that by the nature of it has to be done that way.

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

also...if atos weren't target driven then why were so many people appealing their decisions (approx %40) and winning? the win rate was %60 (%90 if you had legal representation) It is no surprise that the Govt then stopped legal aid in these cases (and many other areas for that matter) It was a good way to get the numbers down. Add to the legal aid changes the fact that if your application for sickness benefit (ESA) is turned down you can no longer appeal straight away, you must first go through 'mandatory reconsideration' where the DWP reviews it decission, only after that you can appeal (with no legal aid) sounds fine in practice except for Two things 1: there is no time limit on how long the the DWP can take to review the case (think of the backlogs) and 2: From when your benefits are refused you will no longer receive any money until after the 'mandatory reconsideration' you are advised to sign on to Job seekers, yet clearly a lot of those people can not meet the conditions of JSA and get sanctioned (think of the high sucess rate of appeals) at the same time that the DWP close your esa claim as you cant have 2 claims open at the same time...these are some of the subversive tactics that have been used against the sick and disabled to manipulate the figures and supposedly save money

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

Probably without the data gathered by ATOS etc, we wouldn't know that. Two sides, and all that. This benefit costs the UK £13.9 billion. Any percentage of that is a lot of money.

I'll find out where that figure (%0.7 I mean) is taken from but I don't think it came from ATOS.

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

The 0.7% is from the govt (The DWP) not ATOS and it may well have been from ATOS work but to be honest it is a moot point in my mind. But what you have said comes acreoss to me as... it's ok to attack over 99.3% of genuinely vulnerable people for the sake of catching the very few.

Let me add that the amount of money lost to fraud is half that of DWP errors and a quater of the amount of unclaimed benefits that people dont know they are entitled to. Also DWP's own figures.

They would save more if they could do their jobs properly rather than chase down an extremely small number of fraud cases. I agree the fraud needs to be stopped but the fraud is nothing in comparison to their own mistakes.

 

[KooPeeArr]

I actually think he misinterpreted MY point. he seems to think I'm happy with this, when I'm clearly not. ATOS have made mistakes, but my point is still that anybody who thinks that the process is driven by bullying and targeting instead of a) validating real conditions; b) identifying those people who CAN work; and c) identifying those that are cheating the honest people, are at least in part wrong. It's certain that any large organisation will contain overzealous people who go about the job in a way that causes distress and anger, but that's a very small minority that gives the rest a bad name. ANY organisation - the police, the army, the NHS and yes, ATOS, will suffer from this.

It's terrible that you seem to have been caught up in this, but i don't need other members accusing me of being happy about it.

I was merely saying that my terminology would be more to your liking than the content or message.

Sorry if I have upset you.

ATOS were target driven and I don't think anyone can assume the results would be primarily at the expense of the fraudulent few. I still hold the notion that genuine claimants have less ability to fight negative outcomes and so would be better options for meeting said targets.

 

[Quality Passing Rules]

One final point as this is starting to make my blood boil. Just remember that everyone is just an accident away form having to go through this. I hope you never have a car crash or industrial accident Chaz, or you could find yourself on the receiving end of this kind of treatment yourself.

EDIT: Apologies Chaz, This comes across as a bit personal. This is an emotive subject for me and that wasn't my intention.

 

[Madrid_Ranger]

Nice one Banksy.....

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Looks like your impartial OP has pissed you off SB now UKIP have over taken Labour.

 

[sb_73]

Looks like your impartial OP has pissed you off SB now UKIP have over taken Labour.

If you can find any funny and witty right wing populist art I'll post that too. But I can't pretend that I have any time for the kippers.

 

[Madrid_Ranger]

If you can find any funny and witty right wing populist art I'll post that too. But I can't pretend that I have any time for the kippers.

I really don't have time for any of them, over here it is just the same although the new Podemos party has put the gato amongst the palomas! Rather like UKIP but from the opposite direction.