The project - random idea / wishful thinking

[Chunksafc]

The other thing that excites me about this is the more we look at younger players, develop them and improve them, the more young players will start looking at us and wanting to come here.

Look at me getting carried away again

 

[young2077]

I think they are laying the right foundations for years to come, when these young players are at their prime of 25, 26 we will probably cash in on them for big money, however we will have another 20 year old as their replacement with probably a 17 year old behind him, it will be a continuous system, that is why the recruitment has to be perfect when bringing these young lads in.
How high we can go with this model nobody knows but it looks a lot better than any other system we've had before

There will be some flops along the way but we can see already it will get us some very exciting players to watch. When was the last time we had that?

When have we had players who are technically good, skillful, fast, attacking players that are hard working and never give up?

Buying them at this young age is getting us a better player than we would buying someone 28 or so. Yet if its true AN had a problem that we weren't buying experiences plodder. Tony Mowbray will.work out a better git for what we want to do imo. He seemed genuinely excited to be working with young lads with so much potential.

 

[young2077]

The other thing that excites me about this is the more we look at younger players, develop them and improve them, the more young players will start looking at us and wanting to come here.

Look at me getting carried away again

Its hard not to, I think Jack Clarke and Cirkin have a lot to answer for in that regard. Both are very young but already easy to see they are two of the most naturally gifted players we have had at this club in a longtime.

Then you add Ballard and Huggins both looked excellent before injury.

And we have just signed a lad who was playing at psg! And 3 others aswell, we have been trusted to develop a player that cost Man Utd nearly £40 million.

I'm getting exited now

 

[The Norton Cat]

There will be some flops along the way but we can see already it will get us some very exciting players to watch. When was the last time we had that?

When have we had players who are technically good, skillful, fast, attacking players that are hard working and never give up?

Buying them at this young age is getting us a better player than we would buying someone 28 or so. Yet if its true AN had a problem that we weren't buying experiences plodder. Tony Mowbray will.work out a better git for what we want to do imo. He seemed genuinely excited to be working with young lads with so much potential.

I'm speculating here, based on what I've read about other clubs, some in other sports, that have been very successful in their recruitment, but I would imagine that there's a focus on what kind of a person a player is as well as on what kind of footballer they are.

 

[Chunksafc]

Its hard not to, I think Jack Clarke and Cirkin have a lot to answer for in that regard. Both are very young but already easy to see they are two of the most naturally gifted players we have had at this club in a longtime.

Then you add Ballard and Huggins both looked excellent before injury.

And we have just signed a lad who was playing at psg! And 3 others aswell, we have been trusted to develop a player that cost Man Utd nearly £40 million.

I'm getting exited now

Cirkin is the one for me. I used to play full back so have a soft spot for defenders and probably appreciate a quality defender more than a forward.

I cheered those 2 tackles second half more than the second goal I think

 

[young2077]

I'm speculating here, based on what I've read about other clubs, some in other sports, that have been very successful in their recruitment, but I would imagine that there's a focus on what kind of a person a player is as well as on what kind of footballer they are.

Something we have needed for years.

I bang on about Borini often, the lad was alright when he signed permanent but he was nothing compared to when he was on loan. I don't think he was a very good player but he always gave 100% and had fight in him when on loan, which was at the time best we were getting. Then he came on permanent and when there was no going back and playing for Liverpool if I stand out here option he phoned it in half the time!

Compare that to Jack Clarke who has stepped it up a notch. He clearly wanted a permanent club where he could be playing and in front of fans and is going to thrive off that!

 

[rowley]

Southampton, Brentford and Brighton are all approximations of what we're aiming to do.

The hard part for us if we continue on this path, and for them, is to constantly refresh a squad with quality after selling players.

It's a difficult balance, as buying and selling players at a profit cannot be an end in itself; the team is what it's all about. But it might also be the only sensible way to operate.

But we are clearly more stable and focused now, so all good signs.

 

[FellTop]

Great thread and posts.

I think the heart of our model will be the academy in the next couple of years. We will always be on the lookout for players that can impact the first team, who are also able to develop and progress. I think though we will want to have players coming out of our own academy into the first team squad at age 19 and 20. More of that means less of the buying.

I had a debate on here recently about why I thought our own academy players deserve more patience, and would prefer them to play than loan someone in who may be a bit better from a prem club. Take Dan Neil as an example, so much natural ability in my opinion, but is still on a steep learning curve. I would rather him in the side, than someone a year further on in their development a prem club. The reason is twofold. If we keep investing in our own then we get more payback longer term, either in terms of talent on the park, or a fee in the bank to keep investing in the club. The other thing that is massively important about having Neil, Gooch, Patterson and Embleton in our first team is that they are the best advert for our academy. When we are recruiting in players at 16, 17 make no mistake the biggest question for them is how much success do you have getting players into your first team. At the minute we can say we have 4 first team regulars - that is massive and is worth real money for the academy. It is why for me, as well as the romantic angle, supporting and developing our own, and showing real patience with them, is fundamental to success for the first team in the long run. Our recruitment team, in time, will focus as much on academy recruitment as on the first team. Bringing a player into your academy from another academy costs a surprising amount of money, so the same level of rigour is important.

What I am really keen to see from the club now is a renewed focus on the academy. We need experienced staff at that level. We also need investment. I think I am right in saying we only got cat 1 status for a year at the last renewal. Might suggest we have certain things to fix. I think our first team infrastructure is largely sound, now to make the same levels of investment in the academy age groups.

 

[rowley]

Great thread and posts.

I think the heart of our model will be the academy in the next couple of years. We will always be on the lookout for players that can impact the first team, who are also able to develop and progress. I think though we will want to have players coming out of our own academy into the first team squad at age 19 and 20. More of that means less of the buying.

I had a debate on here recently about why I thought our own academy players deserve more patience, and would prefer them to play than loan someone in who may be a bit better from a prem club. Take Dan Neil as an example, so much natural ability in my opinion, but is still on a steep learning curve. I would rather him in the side, than someone a year further on in their development a prem club. The reason is twofold. If we keep investing in our own then we get more payback longer term, either in terms of talent on the park, or a fee in the bank to keep investing in the club. The other thing that is massively important about having Neil, Gooch, Patterson and Embleton in our first team is that they are the best advert for our academy. When we are recruiting in players at 16, 17 make no mistake the biggest question for them is how much success do you have getting players into your first team. At the minute we can say we have 4 first team regulars - that is massive and is worth real money for the academy. It is why for me, as well as the romantic angle, supporting and developing our own, and showing real patience with them, is fundamental to success for the first team in the long run. Our recruitment team, in time, will focus as much on academy recruitment as on the first team. Bringing a player into your academy from another academy costs a surprising amount of money, so the same level of rigour is important.

What I am really keen to see from the club now is a renewed focus on the academy. We need experienced staff at that level. We also need investment. I think I am right in saying we only got cat 1 status for a year at the last renewal. Might suggest we have certain things to fix. I think our first team infrastructure is largely sound, now to make the same levels of investment in the academy age groups.

Well put.

One must go with the other. And a fully staffed, and experienced Academy is a vital cog , though it might be said that Brentford closed theirs after getting robbed of players for a pittance!
So I'd say that issue needs urgent attention, though as it doesn't serve the interests of five or six clubs to change it, I don't live in hope.

 

[Chunksafc]

Just a thought re Speakman, the academy etc.

Maybe they have focused on the first team recruitment this summer as that was critical and now the window is done they can focus more energy on the academy and get the right people in?

 

[FellTop]

Just a thought re Speakman, the academy etc.

Maybe they have focused on the first team recruitment this summer as that was critical and now the window is done they can focus more energy on the academy and get the right people in?

That is my expectation. I also think Mowbray will help with that, and invest his time and energy. Didnt Speakman say Mowbray would bring expertise across a range of club endeavours?

 

[The Norton Cat]

Well put.

One must go with the other. And a fully staffed, and experienced Academy is a vital cog , though it might be said that Brentford closed theirs after getting robbed of players for a pittance!
So I'd say that issue needs urgent attention, though as it doesn't serve the interests of five or six clubs to change it, I don't live in hope.

Brentford did try to replace their academy by going down a different route and hoovering up young players released by other London clubs into their 'B' team, which makes sense for them, based on their location and relative size to a lot of London clubs. We're more fortunate than them in terms of both geography and the size of the club, so we shouldn't encounter the same problems. The academy does have to be at the core of driving this model forward, in part at least because, while there will be long term investment into an academy player, there won't be large one off (let's forget about installment payments for now) costs in their recruitment.

 

[FellTop]

Well put.

One must go with the other. And a fully staffed, and experienced Academy is a vital cog , though it might be said that Brentford closed theirs after getting robbed of players for a pittance!
So I'd say that issue needs urgent attention, though as it doesn't serve the interests of five or six clubs to change it, I don't live in hope.

I agree. Brentford now have to reopen as well by next season - all top flight clubs are now required to have an academy. More importany than ever that so called smaller clubs, or those without bottomless pockets, can be protected when developing players from 7 to 16, only for someone to scoop them up.

 

[Chunksafc]

That is my expectation. I also think Mowbray will help with that, and invest his time and energy. Didnt Speakman say Mowbray would bring expertise across a range of club endeavours?

Pretty sure he did, he will certainly have ideas and suggestions that should be listened to.

When you throwing your application in?

 

[FellTop]

Pretty sure he did, he will certainly have ideas and suggestions that should be listened to.

When you throwing your application in?

Many better candidates than me mate

 

[Pure River Slut]

I finally feel like the club is moving forward and has become a well-run, modern football club. The entirety of the set up and the way things are being done are what I've been wishing for for years (I'm sure I can trawl through some old posts and find examples of me banging on about it from years ago). This is why I don't understand the criticism that Speakman, or even KLD to an extent, still seems to be getting. They will, and do, get things wrong, and Speakman might not be everyone's cup of tea as a bloke, but at least they're trying to run our football club the right way. I'm so ****ing excited about the potential of all this. We're seriously on the up now!

Agreed. Speakman is responsible for Harvey and the methods we’re using. On the manager thing I think Mowbray will be lass canny tactically but a far better fit for the clubs development.

 

[Sunderpitt]

First of all I do not have a problem of buying cheap and selling dear... its the foundation of most of business.

However with football clubs and the different divisions they find themselves, their will be a norm for wages and transfer fees...

Atm, imho we still have to up our investment to the divisions level...ie a reasonable good number of quality squad 1st teamers.

We have not done that, now it may be the potential of some of the very promising young players we have, will come through quicker than expected and all will be well.... or not.

Buying a striker and a CB in January will be more expensive than the window just past.

I also have a sneaky feeling that successful football clubs on the field rarely make a profit or break even.

 

[Oliver's Army]

Well put.

One must go with the other. And a fully staffed, and experienced Academy is a vital cog , though it might be said that Brentford closed theirs after getting robbed of players for a pittance!
So I'd say that issue needs urgent attention, though as it doesn't serve the interests of five or six clubs to change it, I don't live in hope.

Just a thought re Speakman, the academy etc.

Maybe they have focused on the first team recruitment this summer as that was critical and now the window is done they can focus more energy on the academy and get the right people in?

That's one thing I was going to add. If we sell one of these lads for, say 20m then we won't necessarily put 20m back into the first team squad. That money could, for example, get us additional resources/expansion of the AoL, expand the scouting network, refurb the exec boxes etc etc and then still have cash to get another young player to come in and replace the one who leaves. To me, that is 'the club' as a whole entity being self sufficient.

Who knows, we might even get half price season tickets.......

 

[sheepman]

The potential for this club is ridiculous One thing we need though as fans is patience and understanding that there will be hiccups along the way Young kids will have off days and we will get it wrong occasionally But I can’t remember feeling so positive about the club since Reidys days

 

[Brainy Dose]

I'm speculating here, based on what I've read about other clubs, some in other sports, that have been very successful in their recruitment, but I would imagine that there's a focus on what kind of a person a player is as well as on what kind of footballer they are.

Spot on mate. I have it on good authority that a successful recruitment process spends as much time on the person as it does on the talent.
Thinking back,it may be that Alves...the Danish lad we got from West Ham...is probably the only one we've got wrong so far.