Point is though that things could have been so much better if they had managed certain personalities better down the years. McLaren give it the whole 'we exist to win' philosophy, well that looks a bit stupid when since the days of Mika and DC they have won just 1 WDC and not a single constructors trophy. As mentioned earlier on here they are great at winning races but under the current management incompetent at trying to win a championship (See last year, 2007) which for a team of their size and with their resources really is not good enough.
TBH, I thought the Whitmarsh and Button line was a joke. Anyway, scapegoating Martin and his conspiracy with Button goes way back to the BBC. I think it's true that we're jumping the gun by presuming there's a big problem before the season has begun, maybe we should wait and see. Also, perhaps too much is expected of McLaren: no team has been able to beat Red Bull for the last three years now and if we should presume anything about this season, it's that RBR will prove unbeatable again.
Hard to disagree with this, but that doesn't hide the fact they have been, on average, fairly dismal since Hamilton won the title. By all accounts, they had the fastest car and should have won the title last season were it not for a series of highly embarrassing and well documented mishaps, or summarily, a severe lack of focus. Which brings the debate back to point of the original post. They may not be struggling relative to others, they may not even have a dog of a car, but in a sport where the difference between success and failure is measured in hundredths of seconds, such a lack of focus is inevitably the difference between winning the title in the fastest car and being outfought and outthought by an inferior car into third place. It makes little difference, but it makes ALL the difference.
the real problem with McLaren is that their cars look too sexy. And this problem has been too deeply engrained by Ron Weasley, I mean Ron Dennis, that there is no quick fix. The car with one of the worst liveries has won both championships 3 years in a row. Its going to require a real eyesore before McLaren can start to think about the ultimate prize again.
Driver equality is the simple reason McLaren are in the position they are in. I've alway's favored this approach myself but it does come at a cost, most winning teams, mentioning no names here, will focus on a particular driver when that driver begins to show an advantage over his teamate, McLaren do not do that and it's their achilles heel. Martin Whitmarsh is a good guy but a politician and plays the middle line, he is too correct and can't think on his feet, RD is the same, nothing wrong with that, but you need to be more of a single minded bastard to win. Both these guys plan to the utmost degree how the team will run a race, unfortunately plans do not always work to the theory, as I well know being an engineer myself, McLaren need to build in more flexibiliy, room for error, **** happens as we all know.
Always been my point and I said that if either Lewis or Jenson won the WDC as team mates it would have been very significant given the opposition! They have probably lost more championships through this as they have won.
When competing against teams that have clear #1 drivers and also have highly competitive cars, McLaren's policy of equal drivers just doesn't work. I'd prefer it if all teams worked the way McLaren do but it's just not the case.
I dont buy into this 'Equal status is the problem'. If they had a decent car then both drivers would do well and they would bring home the WCC. What happened last year? They started off with the best car then ended up behind. When they got the car good again the work was shoddy and the cars fell to bits.
Good point but I think the equal status is also a factor when your rivals are Vettel and Alonso who both have undivided support.
I agree with Bando. Whilst equal driver status may hinder a WDC push, it shouldn't be a problem for a WCC challenge, in fact, having 2 good drivers should make this easier. If Mclaren had a consistent, reliable car last season, Button and Hamilton as a combination would have delivered the WCC, but perhaps infighting may have prevented them winning the WDC. But, they haven't won the WCC for over a decade, despite having very good drivers throughout that period. I think reliability and operational issues have cost them.
I think it was more reliabilty than anything that cost them the WCC. Cant remember off the top of my head but I think Lewis was leading at least 2 races and then DNF'd and Jenson had at least that P2 position in Monza. Without doing the countback (of who would ahve finished where with + & - points) I think they would have been in a far more favourable position. All ifs I Know and its a valid piont to raise that equal status doesn't or shouldn't affect a WCC.
If your spending a good portion of your time developing a neutral car rather than one that plays to a particular drivers strengths, then equal status could also cost a team the WCC.
When was this last a problem though? With Button and Hamilton, whilst Button likes a specific set-up, supposedly Hamilton doesn't care and can drag performance from most set-ups, so the car could be designed for Button without hindering Hamilton. 2009 I don't think Kovalainen was on equal footing to Hamilton anyway and the car was clearly good enough in 07, when they would have won. So really, from 06 onwards I don't think the characteristics of the car has impacted on their chances, it's been reliability and operational problems.
If you counting on one driver to drag a car kicking and screaming while trying to balance it for another then I'd say there's a problem. Putting their effort behind either Button or Hamilton would probably have served them better IMO. Hopefully they'll put their efforts behind Button for the 2013 season.
I don't see this as an either/or issue here: surely it's a combination of reliability and driver equality, with the equality affecting the WDC and the reliability affecting both the WDC and WCC. Then again, even that's probably simplistic.
eh? That was through the whole team cheating! The driver squable cost Alonso Poll and they were banned from appearing on the podium. Big woop
