The Premier League Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by TheSecondStain, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    Was myself thinking that Ings is a Liverpool player.
     
    #15861
  2. thereisonlyoneno7

    thereisonlyoneno7 Well-Known Member

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    I always look at first game of the season, then the last two games. Then the bits in the middle :)
     
    #15862
  3. Beddytare

    Beddytare Plays the percentage
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    I have to say I rarely watch MOD or any Saints match on the Tele. Even if Saints have won and its on MOD I swear my jinx will change the result.......
     
    #15863
  4. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    I must be bored today. Looked at the PL retained list over coffee. I notice nothing changes at Arsenal. Take a player which another club has groomed and can then release his potential, keep him for several years, then release him or sell him on during his peak years, having turned him into nothing more than average. I can't remember any player going to Arsenal who has actually got substantially better, except Tierry Henry, and that's a totally different era. Oh, the particular player I noticed this time? Danny Welbeck. Used up and spat out at 28.
     
    #15864
  5. - Doing The Lambert Walk

    - Doing The Lambert Walk Well-Known Member

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    That's a quite ridiculous comment.

    Also, Danny Welbeck chose to decline contract offers and leave of his own volition for reasons that are personal. Not exactly 'used up and spat out'.

    This stuff is out in the public domain too: https://www.arsenal.com/news/sanllehi-danny-welbecks-imminent-departure
     
    #15865
  6. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Robert Pires
    Patrick Viera
    Martin Keown
    Aaron Ramsey
     
    #15866
  7. MLsfc

    MLsfc Well-Known Member

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    So 1 in the past 15 years then?

    I must admit to feeling a similar way with Arsenal. Perhaps not quite as bad as saying I can't think of ANY players they have improved, but certainly that there have been a number of talented players to have signed for arsenal only to regress or stand still.
     
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  8. Saintmagic

    Saintmagic Well-Known Member

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    Fabregas Sczesny
     
    #15868
  9. - Doing The Lambert Walk

    - Doing The Lambert Walk Well-Known Member

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    Cesc Fabregas
    Samir Nasri
    Wojciech Szczesny
    Laurent Koscielny
    Alex Song
    Gael Clichy
    Bacary Sagna
    Robin van Persie
    Kolo Toure
    Emmanuel Adebayor
    Olivier Giroud

    And in even more recent times...

    Hector Bellerin
    Rob Holding
    Ainsley Maitland-Niles


    All of these guys have improved considerably during their time with Arsenal.
     
    #15869
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  10. Saintmagic

    Saintmagic Well-Known Member

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    TSS has said a fair few times that he isn’t a football fan so not really surprising he doesn’t know much/anything about a different team to Saints
     
    #15870

  11. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    ... that was just off my head. Would you like me to really sit down and think about it?

    I think their biggest issue has been poor recruitment in a lot of instances.

    You could probably add Theo to that list too*

    Awaits gasps.

    Fabregas
    The speedy Rb
     
    #15871
  12. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    You guys really have to consider that my total lack of interest in football clubs, so don't take it to heart so much. My 'impression' is that players don't improve at Arsenal. There you go. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings on this. To me, Arsenal are just a club for Saints to play. Just occasionally I express more than minimal interest. I'll go back to not bothering again. :cool:
     
    #15872
  13. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like an attacking midfield keeper. :)
     
    #15873
  14. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Who is taking it to heart TSS? Not me.

    It is a bit daft making a sweeping generalisation about something and then confessioning to not really know much about it.

    Are you about to run for PM? :)

    Edit: I’ve just seen who else you quoted... yeah ok, he might have taken it to heart :)
     
    #15874
  15. - Doing The Lambert Walk

    - Doing The Lambert Walk Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, what he said.

    I just think it's pretty ignorant and makes someone look daft to come out with a broad generalisation on a topic you seemingly don't know about - and then when challenged on it to simply admit that you genuinely do not know much about it, but it's still your held opinion anyway.

    It'd be the same if someone made a similar remark about politics, society etc. It's just a bit lazy. :)
     
    #15875
  16. MLsfc

    MLsfc Well-Known Member

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    He does have the basis of a point in fairness, it is just the fact the post was a massive exaggeration by saying there weren't any players that have improved.

    This is backed up by your list. In recent years you could only come up with 3 players. (Although a couple from the other list have been signed within 10 years such as Giroud.)

    I understand your bias but there are a number of highly rated players Arsenal have signed in the past, say 10 seasons, that have either stopped developing due to lack of game time or in fact regressed. Back in the day, as shown by your list, they actually had a good reputation for developing talent. Times just seem to have changed.
     
    #15876
  17. - Doing The Lambert Walk

    - Doing The Lambert Walk Well-Known Member

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    I don't really think it's any different to most other clubs. Clubs go through peaks, troughs and rebuilds. Saints between 2013-2016 were pretty great at recruiting and developing. Now? Not even close.

    Arsenal have been in what will be a long-term rebuild for a couple of years (since 2017/18 with the likes of Alexis, Giroud, Walcott departing and Lacazette and Aubameyang arriving I'd argue, in Wenger's final season) but even still, guys like Guendouzi and Torreira are improving all the time. Lacazette has improved from what he was first like in England.

    It's definitely fair to say it's a trough right now and a rebuild. But I don't think it's any different to most clubs. Every club is patchy. Liverpool pre-Klopp and even the first two Klopp years were not great at developing or recruiting. Their squad was loaded with naff players and people they had to shift on to lower clubs or release. But now, they're probably the best in the business for both of those.

    Look at Saints in terms of players who got worse here, made a step down after leaving or who were promising and never realised their potential after moving here since 2012 alone...

    Bialkowski
    Forster
    Caceres
    Caulker
    Gardos
    Forren
    Pied
    Hoedt
    Clasie
    Boufal
    Gaston
    Juanmi
    Elyounoussi
    Carrillo
    Mayuka
    Gabbiadini
    Tadanari

    It's just a cycle most clubs go through but to claim that Arsenal as a club isn't good at developing players is just totally wrong. They're one of the best in the country for that.
     
    #15877
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  18. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    He is on the Liverpool list, but I believe that is just a technicality* and he'll be moved to our list soon.

    *The technicality being that he is their player<laugh>
     
    #15878
  19. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    That's quite a technicality you've found. :p
     
    #15879
  20. ----HistoryRepeating----

    ----HistoryRepeating---- Well-Known Member

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    Home to Norwich first game.

    (that's my guess before you get too excited!)
     
    #15880

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