The Politics Thread

[PleaseNotPoll]

I'd love to know why and how he changed so much, He used to get pissed and was on the pull all the time in his university days, then he does a complete U-Turn and starts preaching this hateful, violent message of Islam (whilst also distorting Islamic history) and trying to wage war against the 'non-believers'.

Funny that he always used to tell other people to do these things e.g. joining IS, but would never be willing to do them himself.

Zeal of the convert, possibly? He basically wasn't a Muslim at all, then I assume that he got converted by a nutter.
Omar Bakri Mumammed's a likely suspect, which is quite ironic, as ISIS ended up executing his son last year.

Choudary probably views his role as a recruiter as being more valuable than the cannon fodder that he produces.
I wouldn't argue with him on that position, though I'd agree that it does make him rather hypocritical.
If he can send dozens of people over to conflict zones, then it's more useful than a single, untrained pleb turning up.

 

[BrunelGooner]

Zeal of the convert, possibly? He basically wasn't a Muslim at all, then I assume that he got converted by a nutter.
Omar Bakri Mumammed's a likely suspect, which is quite ironic, as ISIS ended up executing his son last year.

Choudary probably views his role as a recruiter as being more valuable than the cannon fodder that he produces.
I wouldn't argue with him on that position, though I'd agree that it does make him rather hypocritical.
If he can send dozens of people over to conflict zones, then it's more useful than a single, untrained pleb turning up.

Do you reckon people like him and Abu Hamza Al-Masri (also known as Captain Hook) guilt trip people into joining extremist groups? I reckon they try and point out that Muslims are suffering in the Middle East and it's our job to try and 'rescue' or 'liberate' them. Then they use/manipulate Islamic verses to give some sort of validation to their cause. Abu Hamza was another one who got away with preaching hateful stuff for a long time in Finsbury Park Mosque. I think he's imprisoned somewhere in the US now, but he also had a large following. That being said, I suppose you have to factor in employment status and age when they recruit for different terrorist groups, as well.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Do you reckon people like him and Abu Hamza Al-Masri (also known as Captain Hook) guilt trip people into joining extremist groups? I reckon they try and point out that Muslims are suffering in the Middle East and it's our job to try and 'rescue' or 'liberate' them. Then they use/manipulate Islamic verses to give some sort of validation to their cause. Abu Hamza was another one who got away with preaching hateful stuff for a long time in Finsbury Park Mosque. I think he's imprisoned somewhere in the US now, but he also had a large following. That being said, I suppose you have to factor in employment status and age when they recruit for different terrorist groups, as well.

It's part guilt trip, part duty and part ignorance.
They tend to target the newly converted or those looking to convert and go after those with troubled or fractured backgrounds.
Lee Rigby's killers would be obvious examples.

Most Muslims that are born and brought up in the faith either have better knowledge of Islam or other people to ask about it.
If they're fed controversial information, then they have ways of assessing it without it being enforced by extremists.
Those funneled through Choudary and his associates tend to be isolated and rather ignorant of the faith.
They can tell them what they want about any provocative passages and the converts have no way of knowing otherwise.

Finsbury Park Mosque might have been a target for these radicals for a specific reason, but I'm not sure what it is.
Location seems to figure into it, as does funding, but it was so well known that they must've realised that they were being monitored.
Maybe they felt untouchable, as so many of them got away with it for so long?

 

[Shark]

As has been said, 'most' Muslims wouldn't identify with Choudary at all. Let's face it, he's given a platform because he's a man likely to reinforce / confirm what certain 'news' outlets would have us all believe is representative of mainstream Islam. There's also conspiracy theories that he was an MI5 agent, in place to give an unauthorised voice to extremists.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Good news if you're Greek: Angela Merkel's Christian Democrat party came third in the Mecklenburg-West Pomerania state election, with the centre-left Social Democrats winning with 30.3% of the vote to the Christian Democrats' 19%...
Bad news if you're Polish: ...while the far-right Alternative for Germany came second, with 21.4% of the vote

 

[bigsmithy9]

If these Muslim people have issues with us Britons and Americans,wouldn't it be more convenient to everybody if they book their passages back to where they came from.I'm sure this would make them and us very happy!!!!?

 

[Shark]

If these Muslim people have issues with us Britons and Americans,wouldn't it be more convenient to everybody if they book their passages back to where they came from.I'm sure this would make them and us very happy!!!!?

Which ones? Choudary was born in Welling for example. He probably goes back to where he comes from every night, though not for much longer perhaps... I believe the point is that the significant majority of Muslims in the country don't have issues with Britons and Americans. We just give a platform to the idiots who want to preach hate. Also, reading between the lines, would you extend the same rule to the British and American military forces who have been present in the Middle East for the past 25 years? Should they not go back to where they came from as well?

 

[Spur of the Moment]

So, now Pro-Corbynite MP Keith Vaz gets caught in a sting set up not by the Sun or Times, but by the Anti-Corbynite Daily Mirror in the midst of the leadership ballot. Discuss......

Personally cannot recall the Socialist Mirror ever targeting 'one of its own' but there may be a precedent.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

So, now Pro-Corbynite MP Keith Vaz gets caught in a sting set up not by the Sun or Times, but by the Anti-Corbynite Daily Mirror in the midst of the leadership ballot. Discuss......

Personally cannot recall the Socialist Mirror ever targeting 'one of its own' but there may be a precedent.

Given his decade-long crusade blaming video games for all of society's ills, I'm waiting for him to blame Saint's Row for this one...

 

[The RDBD]

Good news if you're Greek: Angela Merkel's Christian Democrat party came third in the Mecklenburg-West Pomerania state election, with the centre-left Social Democrats winning with 30.3% of the vote to the Christian Democrats' 19%...
Bad news if you're Polish: ...while the far-right Alternative for Germany came second, with 21.4% of the vote

Early stage UKIPitus for Merkel.
Not significant enough to cause immediate damage, but do not be so complacent that will not
be the case for ages.

 

[BrunelGooner]

If these Muslim people have issues with us Britons and Americans,wouldn't it be more convenient to everybody if they book their passages back to where they came from.I'm sure this would make them and us very happy!!!!?

Whenever I see comments like this on the internet, it really does get on my nerves. Do a google search of colonial rule in Europe and America, then let's see if you still stick by this.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Early stage UKIPitus for Merkel.
Not significant enough to cause immediate damage, but do not be so complacent that will not
be the case for ages.

Her hubris damn near saw the Christian Democrats become the opposition at the last election.

What helped the Christian Democrats into the Bundestag in the 2005 and 2009 wasn't Merkel appealing to the masses, but some blatant vote splitting on the part of CDU voters: their first vote was for either the Christian Democrats or the Christian Social Union of Bavaria (which is literally the CDU's Bavarian-only branch) and their proportional vote was for the Free Democratic Party - meaning that the two parties going into coalition would give Merkel a majority at the Bundestag, while also ensuring a willing and submissive coalition partner.

For the 2013 election, however, Merkel's campaign platform was based on her being such a good Chancellor that CDU supporters should vote for her and her only, waiving the proportional vote as she swept to power. There was one small problem with this idea: she didn't secure a majority, and it was literally impossible to fall back on the FDP because a combination of alienating their supporters and not having the proportional vote from CDU supporters meant they lost all 93 of the seats they won in 2009. The only thing that kept her in the Bundestag was the Social Democratic Party being unable to come to agreements to form a coalition with the left Party and the Greens that would've given them a majority and slung Merkel out on her arsch, not because of anything the SPD did but because the Greens refused to go into coalition with Left Party, and in the end Merkel had to go into coalition with the SPD - which in terms of British politics is Theresa May having to go into coalition with Jeremy Corbyn to stay in power.

If these Muslim people have issues with us Britons and Americans,wouldn't it be more convenient to everybody if they book their passages back to where they came from.I'm sure this would make them and us very happy!!!!?

You mean the places the Americans (with only too willing support from Britain) bombed to ****?

 

[The RDBD]

Her hubris damn near saw the Christian Democrats become the opposition at the last election. ...

With France and Germany due for general elections next year,
it will be interesting to see what effects the Leave result has had on the
EU cornerstone nations.

 

[bigsmithy9]

Whenever I see comments like this on the internet, it really does get on my nerves. Do a google search of colonial rule in Europe and America, then let's see if you still stick by this.

Whenever I see comments like this on the internet, it really does get on my nerves. Do a google search of colonial rule in Europe and America, then let's see if you still stick by this.

I think British colonial rule helped those countries.It was only when they got independence trouble started within their own peoples.
I can remember the white leader of Southern Rhodesia deciding on unilateral Independence from Britain.Didn't do him any good.The black people of that country took over,took their farms and busineses...and the country went down the tube.

...And,yes.Bring home the Americans from the arab countries.The arab peoples should be fighting for themselves.

There weren't many British people wanting to leave their country when WW2 started.They fought for themselves and never gave up....and won! At a cost admittedly.My uncle Jack was shot down and killed over France flying a Blenheim. A flying turkey,admittedly,but they had to use what they had.

 

[Shark]

I think British colonial rule helped those countries.It was only when they got independence trouble started within their own peoples.
I can remember the white leader of Southern Rhodesia deciding on unilateral Independence from Britain.Didn't do him any good.The black people of that country took over,took their farms and busineses...and the country went down the tube.

...And,yes.Bring home the Americans from the arab countries.The arab peoples should be fighting for themselves.

There weren't many British people wanting to leave their country when WW2 started.They fought for themselves and never gave up....and won! At a cost admittedly.My uncle Jack was shot down and killed over France flying a Blenheim. A flying turkey,admittedly,but they had to use what they had.

I clearly come from a different time to you, i respect your opinion but that's a pretty red, white and blue tinted take on our colonial past. We conquered countries, violently if necessary. I don't think our actions were quite as dark as the French in places like Algeria but the idea that we were out there handing out trains and teaching English and good table manners is a myth.

America (and the UK) involvement in the middle east is about (and always has been about) protecting our foreign interests. We arm and support a faction one decade, bomb the **** out of them the next when allegiances shift. The idea that we're out there fighting for 'Arabs' is a joke. We fight to keep a hand in the oil. Britain's actions in WW2 were vital and we should be proud but there is no comparison between that and what's going on now in Syria for example. Or any of the Western Middle Eastern conflicts in modern history for that matter.

 

[SpursDisciple]

I clearly come from a different time to you, i respect your opinion but that's a pretty red, white and blue tinted take on our colonial past. We conquered countries, violently if necessary. I don't think our actions were quite as dark as the French in places like Algeria but the idea that we were out there handing out trains and teaching English and good table manners is a myth.

America (and the UK) involvement in the middle east is about (and always has been about) protecting our foreign interests. We arm and support a faction one decade, bomb the **** out of them the next when allegiances shift. The idea that we're out there fighting for 'Arabs' is a joke. We fight to keep a hand in the oil. Britain's actions in WW2 were vital and we should be proud but there is no comparison between that and what's going on now in Syria for example. Or any of the Western Middle Eastern conflicts in modern history for that matter.

Well put. Our involvement in India, for example, is one we should be ashamed of.

 

[NSIS]

The purpose of British 'involvement' ( invasion is the right word!) in India was to strip it of its natural resources for our own purposes and profit.

Pretty much a latter day version of what we and the Yanks have been up to in the M.E.

 

[PowerSpurs]

I think British colonial rule helped those countries.It was only when they got independence trouble started within their own peoples.
I can remember the white leader of Southern Rhodesia deciding on unilateral Independence from Britain.Didn't do him any good.The black people of that country took over,took their farms and busineses...and the country went down the tube.

...And,yes.Bring home the Americans from the arab countries.The arab peoples should be fighting for themselves.

There weren't many British people wanting to leave their country when WW2 started.They fought for themselves and never gave up....and won! At a cost admittedly.My uncle Jack was shot down and killed over France flying a Blenheim. A flying turkey,admittedly,but they had to use what they had.

If Germany had invaded the UK in WW2 and occupied us since there would be many Germans arguing that this was wholly in the UK's interest. There would most likely be a large group of people (called 'terrorists' by the Germans) who would be resisting the occupation. The occupying power always argues that it is doing it for the best interests of the natives and the UK's colonial actions are no different and no more worthy of praise.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Any chance of me meeting Ol' Anjem has just gone for a while, unfortunately.
The twat's been locked up for five and a half years. Shame.

 

[Dier Hard]

Any chance of me meeting Ol' Anjem has just gone for a while, unfortunately.
The twat's been locked up for five and a half years. Shame.

Be out in two or three. Bloody joke.

Hopefully gets a battering inside, though no doubt our tax will go towards keeping him safe and separate in a luxury cell.