The Politics Thread

[RobSpur]

Here's a few various bits and pieces with some interesting stuff amongst them :


[7] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ry-and-Bashar-al-Assad-dined-in-Damascus.html

[8] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-sarin-gas-attacks-blamed-Assads-troops.html .

[9] http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-syrians-support-bashar-al-assad/5405208

[12] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/28/us-syria-crisis-students-idUSBRE92R0E020130328

[13] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aged-pro-Assad-captives-as-human-shields.html

[14] http://opiniojuris.org/2013/05/28/rebels-in-syria-threaten-genocide-against-the-shia/

[16] https://theintercept.com/2015/10/26...with-incredibly-dishonest-and-biased-editing/

[17]

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[21] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/saudi-arabia

[23]

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[24]

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[25] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...ed-isis-tool-overthrow-syrias-president-assad

[28] http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ke-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

[29] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yousaf-butt-/saudi-wahhabism-islam-terrorism_b_6501916.html

[32] http://beyondmoney.net/2011/11/16/did-libyas-gadhafi-threaten-the-global-power-structure/

[33] https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KIEV1706_a.html

[37]

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[The RDBD]

"Hong Kong's almost unchanged from 20 years ago though.
It's not like the government has been appointed to turn hong kong into communist china.
In fact the hong kong government happily speak out against the mainland when necessary."

Any perception that the politniks are seeking to place mainland lapdogs causes the outrage.

As there was nominally none of that occurring in the 20 yrs prior to 1997, then HK denizens
do as they normally do and focus on the more mundane daily life issues.
What level of democracy they actually had effectively became moot.

 

[RobSpur]

For me the Hong Kong reporting was terrible. It isn't just about the democratic process (which i think is about as democratic as UK, realistically i cannot be PM of UK unless i own a party and have MPs under me. I cannot by myself win the vote of the country).

BBC was reporting about violence at the protesters and about how the country supported the protests when i'm not sure that the majority did (anecdotal i must admit). If the same was to happen in the UK or indeed what DID happen in New York, you can be sure that the police would have cleared out these protesters who were blocking most of the main roads into the city for 2 and a half months.

I understand why the protests happen as there is a lot of inequality in HK, probably more so than UK and lot of the money stays with the upper classes (think its similar to korea and other asian countries) with a lack of opportunity for the underclass and lot of the HK culture is being "systematically" destroyed by corporations (similar to how Starbucks/amazon have effectively reduced the need of independents).

Said exactly the same thing at the time, about if the protests had been in UK or US. Spot on.

 

[The RDBD]

"For me the Hong Kong reporting was terrible"

Very little you can report in an N second bulletin, and confrontations are always
better viewing. However BBC (world) news in their late night showings had extended bulletins,
and then the report on the HK stuff was more considered.

 

[RobSpur]

"Hong Kong's almost unchanged from 20 years ago though.
It's not like the government has been appointed to turn hong kong into communist china.
In fact the hong kong government happily speak out against the mainland when necessary."

Any perception that the politniks are seeking to place mainland lapdogs causes the outrage.

As there was nominally none of that occurring in the 20 yrs prior to 1997, then HK denizens
do as they normally do and focus on the more mundane daily life issues.
What level of democracy they actually had effectively became moot.

Obviously there were no protests against the British on account of them being accused of being lapdogs to mainland China. Why on earth would here be ?

Protests against the British were far stronger than any protests there have been since handover though.

I don't understand he point you are trying to make ?

 

[The RDBD]

"I don't understand he point you are trying to make"

That nothing seems to act more like a red rag to bull for yer average HK denizen
than some one/thing being/becoming a lapdog to the mainland govt.

 

[RobSpur]

"I don't understand he point you are trying to make"

That nothing seems to act more like a red rag to bull for yer average HK denizen
than some one/thing being/becoming a lapdog to the mainland govt.

Fair enough. But that's not really what we were talking about is it ?

As I say though, I'm not sure that's completely true though anyway :

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[The RDBD]

"As I say though, I'm not sure that's completely true though anyway"

In the 20 yrs I have been visiting HK, and the 30 yrs I have had HK (chinese) denizens
as friends, it holds as a general rule.

 

[RobSpur]

"As I say though, I'm not sure that's completely true though anyway"

In the 20 yrs I have been visiting HK, and the 30 yrs I have had HK (chinese) denizens
as friends, it holds as a general rule.

I would suggest that it goes without saying that in a period when HK was being prepared for handover from the British to the Chinese, and in the period after the completion of that handover, HK citizens would be more concerned about the attitudes of the Chinese towards them, than they would be by the attitudes of the (now irrelevant) British towards them.

That doesn't mean though, that HK is more anti China, than it was anti Britain, and the comparative extent and degree of protest against the two suggests that it was not the case.

It's also not what we were talking about !

 

[The RDBD]

"It's also not what we were talking about !"

Bemoaning the BBC presentation of the HK student protests is done and dusted.
A non-story.

 

[RobSpur]

"It's also not what we were talking about !"

Bemoaning the BBC presentation of the HK student protests is done and dusted.
A non-story.

Most people in the UK would have got the impression from the statements made by the British government, and from the press coverage given to the pro democracy protests last year, that HK had become less democractic under Chinese rule, that it was under British rule.

That perception and presentarion is categorically inaccurate, because HK is more democratic under Chinese rule than it was under British rule.

In comparison to the lies we are told about Syria and other armed conflicts it pales into insignificance, but it is nonetheless a valid point.

 

[vimhawk]

Mad Tuesday in the States continues (or whatever they call it). Even having known about the US system for electing presidential candidates for years, I still can't get my head round why the votes have to be done over such a long time. Surely the results of earlier ballots affect later ballots, and surely that can't be democratic? There are so many possibilities that are wrong, for example you might have your strongest support in states that go later on, but by that time you're already out of the race, people switch allegiance to those more likely to win, or those people don't even get a proper say. It's a circus, reported on by a media machine that has no obligation for balance (and people think UK media organisations are biased!)

 

[redwhiteandermblue]

Trying to get a third consecutive presidential term for a single party always feels like trying to push a hippo into a phone booth. Nothing demonstrates the general disgust with the status quo as eloquently as the fact that Sanders does far better against all the Republicans (beating them all handily) than N’Jie, I mean Clinton. It’s as clear to me as to her worst critics that Clinton has no principals, has no desire to do anything, and will do nothing but try to get herself elected. The farthest left mainstream politician in the US easily beating her goes to show how sick to death the public is of Hillary. About her only virtue in most people’s eyes is that she won’t ratchet up the chances of Armageddon.

Mad Tuesday in the States continues (or whatever they call it). Even having known about the US system for electing presidential candidates for years, I still can't get my head round why the votes have to be done over such a long time. Surely the results of earlier ballots affect later ballots, and surely that can't be democratic? There are so many possibilities that are wrong, for example you might have your strongest support in states that go later on, but by that time you're already out of the race, people switch allegiance to those more likely to win, or those people don't even get a proper say. It's a circus, reported on by a media machine that has no obligation for balance (and people think UK media organisations are biased!)

All the complexity and the money sloshing into the system ensures it does what it’s supposed to do: let the mass of people pick who will serve the rich and powerful.

 

[deedub93]

Trump, the new Leicester City, Not expected to win but currently in with the best chance. God help us, oh ****, I don't believe in god, we're on our own.

 

[NSIS]

Trump, the new Leicester City, Not expected to win but currently in with the best chance. God help us, oh ****, I don't believe in god, we're on our own.

It never ceases to amaze me the way the American public continually falls for these political charades. Trump is a political buffoon, a hustler, a conman , a modern day P.T. Barnum.

I'm no Clinton fan either, but God, I hope she can save the rest of us from that buffoon.

 

[deedub93]

It never ceases to amaze me the way the American public continually falls for these political charades. Trump is a political buffoon, a hustler, a conman , a modern day P.T. Barnum.

I'm no Clinton fan either, but God, I hope she can save the rest of us from that buffoon.

The devil or the deep blue sea. Let's hope Michael Bloomberg comes along to save the day.

 

[PowerSpurs]

The devil or the deep blue sea. Let's hope Michael Bloomberg comes along to save the day.

Trump and Clinton equally bad? What have you been smoking?

 

[The RDBD]

"Most people in the UK would have got the impression from the statements made by the British government,
and from the press coverage given to the pro democracy protests last year, that HK had become less
democratic under Chinese rule, that it was under British rule."

Perhaps.

I suspect most saw it as a bunch of students thinking they were the new Tiananmen Square,
when neither the issue nor stakes were even remotedly as high as in 1989.

 

[The RDBD]

The USA have been Drumpfed on again.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

You know how there's that Australian billionaire that's building a replica Titanic? Somebody needs to tell Bill Gates he should build a replica Mayflower for the return journey.