The Politics Thread

[Wandering Yid]

Creating this thread for any fellow politicos as it's going to be an interesting year, plenty to discuss what with US elections, Brexit, the NHS, the Middle East etc etc. Take your pick! Also feel free to mute/ignore the thread if it's not your bag! Not that I need to say so but civilized discussions only please.

I know we've had one of these threads in the past but it was almost entirely focused on Scottish Independence so thought I'd start fresh.

So who are people's picks out of the presidential candidates? I suspect there'll be a lot of support for Senator Sanders dragging America kicking and screaming into the mid-20th century...

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

If there’s one thing that bothers me about the upcoming US presidential election it’s the idea that voters would have to make a choice between Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton - because that choice is about the same as asking somebody whether they'd prefer if a grizzly bear or a polar bear fisted them.

No matter which choice you make you’ll have a wild animal whose claws do not retract with its paw jammed firmly where the sun doesn’t shine, and the best argument you could possibly say about one over the other is that the grizzly’s fur will be the same colour going in as it is coming back out.

 

[SpursDisciple]

If there’s one thing that bothers me about the upcoming US presidential election it’s the idea that voters would have to make a choice between Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton - because that choice is about the same as asking somebody whether they'd prefer if a grizzly bear or a polar bear fisted them.

No matter which choice you make you’ll have a wild animal whose claws do not retract with its paw jammed firmly where the sun doesn’t shine, and the best argument you could possibly say about one over the other is that the grizzly’s fur will be the same colour going in as it is coming back out.

An easy one for me. Clinton will do less damage than Trump - who is as scary as **** with demented views on immigration.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

An easy one for me. Clinton will do less damage than Trump - who is as scary as **** with demented views on immigration.

Hillary is just as terrifying a prospect as Trump, albeit for different reasons.

The sense of entitlement she has for the nomination, even though she should've learned when Obama got picked ahead of her, is one obvious worry. Also, let it not be forgotten that she voted in favour of the Iraq war, while her stance on the Middle East boils down to Israel GOOD everybody else BAD.

 

[Wandering Yid]

Though I don't think he has much hope, of the Republicans Chris Christie has impressed me the most. Seems to have more of a brain than the rest of them and actually talks in terms of policy rather than pure rhetoric and bravado. I also have an inexplicable fondness for Jeb despite his war-criminal brother, he's the only one who's consistently had the balls to take on Trump.

 

[SpursDisciple]

Hillary is just as terrifying a prospect as Trump, albeit for different reasons.

The sense of entitlement she has for the nomination, even though she should've learned when Obama got picked ahead of her, is one obvious worry. Also, let it not be forgotten that she voted in favour of the Iraq war, while her stance on the Middle East boils down to Israel GOOD everybody else BAD.

She doesn't excite me but those views are shared by every President they've ever had. Trump believes all those things and a world of worse ****. Bomb N Korea, break off negotiations with Iran, anti abortion, climate change is a hoax, abolish obamacare etc etc

 

[yossarian]

If there’s one thing that bothers me about the upcoming US presidential election it’s the idea that voters would have to make a choice between Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton - because that choice is about the same as asking somebody whether they'd prefer if a grizzly bear or a polar bear fisted them.

To be honest, anyone wanting a career in politics should be immediately barred from standing. The public should nominate people they trust for all key ministerial positions, in most cases experts in their field. The experts should formulate policy in those fields and a wider online parliament, unpaid and free from party allegiances should discuss and then vote.

The problem, as I see it, is that we're always trying to vote for the least worst option rather than a good one.

 

[NSIS]

Trump is, in my view, a dangerous egomaniac. God help us all if he becomes president!

Not even America would be that stupid, surely?...

 

[yossarian]

They were stupid enough to vote for George W Bush.....TWICE!

 

[NSIS]

They were stupid enough to vote for George W Bush.....TWICE!

I know!

It was a rhetorical question.

 

[SpursDisciple]

They were stupid enough to vote for George W Bush.....TWICE!

Once

 

[The Huddlefro]

Clinton cannot be trusted and the last thing America needs is the continuation of another US political dynasty. Trump is symptomatic of disillusionment amongst a sizeable (though not a majority) portion of the electorate who feel abandoned by and disenchanted with the dominant political culture of today. He is not the solution but the forces behind his success so far cannot be ignored no matter how unpalatable to the prevailing ideology and thoughts of the time those people and their views might be. Sanders is a bit of a wildcard and like Trump represents the fallout of another part of the US electorate with the traditional political elite, albeit he is the figurehead of that from the other side of the political spectrum. He would make an interesting POTUS but I don't think it'll happen. I think it says a lot that the leading GOP candidates are hardly establishment favourites right now, and Sanders has been so level with Clinton too when it is so clear what each represents. One of the most interesting Presidential races I've seen for sure.

I hope Clinton doesn't get in but I think she might. If it is a Sanders/Trump race I think Bloomberg will run as an independent and may have a shot.

 

[yossarian]

True. He didn't win the popular vote first time

 

[Wandering Yid]

I hope Clinton doesn't get in but I think she might. If it is a Sanders/Trump race I think Bloomberg will run as an independent and may have a shot.

Bloomberg entering the race would be a disaster in my opinion. In that scenario I can only see Bloomberg stealing votes off Sanders, from people disappointed the more moderate Clinton didn't win the nomination. This would split the moderate/progressive vote and result in a Trump presidency.

Whether it knows it or not, the country needs Bernie Sanders to fix the enormous inequalities, racial divisions, and near total absence of state relief and welfare. These aren't new ideas in the US, Roosevelt was implementing many of Sanders' ideas in the 30s, they've just been gradually eroded away.

 

[NSIS]

Bloomberg entering the race would be a disaster in my opinion. In that scenario I can only see Bloomberg stealing votes off Sanders, from people disappointed the more moderate Clinton didn't win the nomination. This would split the moderate/progressive vote and result in a Trump presidency.

Whether it knows it or not, the country needs Bernie Sanders to fix the enormous inequalities, racial divisions, and near total absence of state relief and welfare. These aren't new ideas in the US, Roosevelt was implementing many of Sanders' ideas in the 30s, they've just been gradually eroded away.

Sanders hasn't a chance in hell of being elected. He's way too far to the left to get any significant popular vote in the US.

I'm no Clinton fan, but she has the best chance of stopping that buffoon, Trump.

 

[Wandering Yid]

Sanders hasn't a chance in hell of being elected. He's way too far to the left to get any significant popular vote in the US.

I'm no Clinton fan, but she has the best chance of stopping that buffoon, Trump.

I disagree. Party affiliation has declined drastically in the states since the recession, and Sanders has consistently polled better with independents than the distrusted Clinton. In head to heads Sanders beats every Republican candidate, while Clinton virtual ties with Trump, and loses to Cruz and Rubio. Now I know the UK election taught us that polls can't be trusted, but the only other thing you can go on is personal opinion.

It's also far from certain that Trump will get the Republican nomination in the first place, yes he draws huge crowds, but I suspect most of them don't have the brain cells to find their way to the ballot box.

 

[Spurf]

If there’s one thing that bothers me about the upcoming US presidential election it’s the idea that voters would have to make a choice between Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton - because that choice is about the same as asking somebody whether they'd prefer if a grizzly bear or a polar bear fisted them.

To be honest, anyone wanting a career in politics should be immediately barred from standing. The public should nominate people they trust for all key ministerial positions, in most cases experts in their field. The experts should formulate policy in those fields and a wider online parliament, unpaid and free from party allegiances should discuss and then vote.

The problem, as I see it, is that we're always trying to vote for the least worst option rather than a good one.

'The problem, as I see it, is that we're always trying to vote for the least worst option rather than a good one'

That in one is the major problem. It's all to do with elites as soon as you get rid of one a new one forms, in the UK it goes back to the Norman Conquest in the US having got rid of the British elite they formed their own aristos although the US has a far more democratic system than ours it still produces elites as any system man has devised does.

 

[Spurlock]

I don't follow U.S politics because my default stance is that they are all ****s, no matter who comes in.

The underlying agendas never change because the puppet masters are the same.

Anyway I'm going back onto YouTube to watch some more Illuminati documentaries.

 

[redwhiteandermblue]

Trump is a would-be strongman, which is the most dangerous thing possible. The republic is still strong enough to survive him--I hope--but the idea that a candidate can get as far as he has already saying the same thing as Mussolini--leave it to me, I'll fix things--does not bode well, to put it mildly.

Clinton is the status quo, which is the Democrats winning the battles and losing the war. Obama is farther right than Goldwater 50 years ago, when Goldwater was massively rejected for beiing far too right wing.

Sanders is about the only American politician around now who is not too far from old Labor. He is or was the only Socialist in congress. But that's only on domestic policy. He's made it clear he's all for continuing our foreign policy. I think that's too bad, because our foreign policy consists mainly of wandering around the Middle East killing people we hate. And, since we hate pretty much everybody, it amounts to wandering around the Middle East, killing people at random. Lots of people. Luckily, there's no way that's likely to come back to bite us in the ass.

And yet...my God at least Sanders is talking some sense about domestic issues. Free higher education, free health care, much higher taxes, breaking up monopolies. He'll never get elected, even if he is nothing he wants to do will ever get passed, but it's the first real sign of life, or of conscience, in American politics in generations.

There's nothing very original about what Sanders says, but he's actually for something, and, interestingly, does better against Trump than Clinton. It's because something is better than nothing, which is what Clinton is. She is dedicated to doing as little as possible to change anything. Nobody much likes that.

What I would like is Sanders' domestic policy and Rand Paul's foreign policy. The latter consists of getting American troops the hell out of everywhere.

 

[NSIS]

I disagree. Party affiliation has declined drastically in the states since the recession, and Sanders has consistently polled better with independents than the distrusted Clinton. In head to heads Sanders beats every Republican candidate, while Clinton virtual ties with Trump, and loses to Cruz and Rubio. Now I know the UK election taught us that polls can't be trusted, but the only other thing you can go on is personal opinion.

It's also far from certain that Trump will get the Republican nomination in the first place, yes he draws huge crowds, but I suspect most of them don't have the brain cells to find their way to the ballot box.

Whatever the polls say, believe me, when push comes to shove no way will the American public elect Sanders. Especially now, after Obama, the mood is definitely not there.

I'm not saying that he isn't right about some things, he probably is. But he is burdened with the label 'socialist' and that's anathema to far too many Americans for him to get elected.