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The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. audrey.s.thackeray

    audrey.s.thackeray Well-Known Member

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    Because now we have a better, more specific idea of what Brexit would involve, and people could decide whether they want to go ahead with that. Because of the wording of the question set in the first referendum, it facilitated a decision in principle only. It's like the situation if I go shopping with the intention of buying a coat (because I've made that decision in principle) but I find all the coats in the shops aren't in the exact style I'd prefer and are quite expensive anyway, so I make a second decision now I have the detailed information. I may decide to go ahead with the purchase. Or I may not.
     
    #8861
  2. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Citizen Cameron was quite clear in his Chatham House speech
    what "leave" meant. Out of all institutions EU.

    Only one question left now : how badly does the EU want that 39bn ... ??
     
    #8862
  3. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Pity he didn't pass legislation to deliver it then.
     
    #8863
  4. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    He did his Neville Chamberlain impersonation.
    But he did at least recognise the piece of paper he returned with
    was worthless, and declared referendum war. However he was
    consumed with too much hubris to finish the war he started.

    This past week Citizen May gave us her Chamberlain impersonation.
    She proclaimed "peace in our time" . Parliament decided the piece of
    paper she returned with was worthless.

    Now, if anyone can confirm that the UK can legally unilaterally declare
    zero tariffs on EU imports irrespective of what the EU conversely do,
    you will have my gratitude,
     
    #8864
  5. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I think under WTO rules we have to have the same tariffs for any country where we don't have a trade deal. So we can have zero tariffs for all imports.
     
    #8865
  6. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Non EU nations I would offer continuation under the EU deal
    for at least 12 months, with an explicit commitment to begin the
    new horse-trading immediately after that. The rationale being that
    for any nation X, any WTO regime agreed between the EU and the UK
    could in fact be worse for X than under their current EU deal (so they
    may be better served to sit tight for now) .
     
    #8866
  7. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    This is why leaving with 'no deal' is a very bad idea. All the current deals fall and we have the option of using WTO terms for everyone or our own choice of lower tariffs for everyone. We can't pick and choose. There are also export quotas in some EU deals and our share will be zero.
     
    #8867
  8. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Hence what I stated.
    If some nation X wants to be a "chancer" on day 1 rather than wait for a bit,
    then they may themselves on the end of a pyrrhic victory.
     
    #8868
  9. paultheplug

    paultheplug Well-Known Member

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    So Cameron was aware that the European Open Skies agreement would end as far as the U.K. was concerned along with hundreds of other agreements. Pity he didn’t comunícate that to everybody else so that it was not only those who took an interest in European governance that knew
     
    #8869
  10. audrey.s.thackeray

    audrey.s.thackeray Well-Known Member

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    #8870

  11. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    A list of hundreds is never going to be read (how many times in your
    life have you as an individual been given a list of hundreds of items and
    been asked to give a "binary" answer - yes/no, agree/disagree etc - to
    every one ?? ) .

    The things that were deemed top of the list for major demographic groups
    (immigration, financing, food production etc) were out there in public discourse
    as things affected by the final decision.
     
    #8871
  12. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Was he? Did he specifically say that?
     
    #8872
  13. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    The whole 45 min speech is online.
    He was also clear that there would be no second referendum
    if the first decreed "leave" .
     
    #8873
  14. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    And he said that a leave vote would mean leaving all EU institutions? I'd rather not search a 45 minute speech for a single sentence.

    As for any second referendum, he's really not in a position to make that decision and couldn't have known what situation we'd be in.
    The overspending, cheating and being funded by a hostile foreign power of the various leave campaigns wasn't something that he knew about, for example.
     
    #8874
  15. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    But he didn't have the power to say that as the legislation passed didn't require it. Your basically saying that if the PM lies the House of Commons has to endorse that lie to avoid the electorate being disappointed...
     
    #8875
  16. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    Don't bring wrestling into it
     
    #8876
  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    "Good god almighty, they've killed her! With god as my witness, she's broken in half!"
     
    #8877
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  18. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    So, as everyone knew in advance, the Tories weren't about to potentially vote themselves out of office. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas and the DUP aren't going to give up the gift of a lifetime...a Prime Minister who they can lead around by the nose.

    May's going to be weakest as and when she picks a direction that has half a hope of getting through Parliament. Once she looks like giving one side of her party what they want, the other might think that she has to go to avoid the Brexit that they don't want.

    All today proves is that Corbyn isn't smart enough and that's hardly news. What a wretched bunch they all are but we voted the ****ers into parliament. We're getting exactly what we deserve!
     
    #8878
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
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  19. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Neville Chamberlain won a no confidence vote 281 to 200, but knowing full well he had a majority of 200 he knew which way the wind was blowing and resigned
    The Dire Leader won a no confidence vote 325 to 306, but we're supposed to ignore the fact that means 2/3 of her majority voted against her...
     
    #8879
  20. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Doing the decent thing went out with wearing bowler hats and spats.
     
    #8880
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