The Politics Thread

I seriously doubt the EU will ever reform, or at least it wouldn't have done before it had the shock of a member leaving. As the organisation got larger I think the chance of reform became less and less. More and more bureaucracy, less and less representation of the people. And with 8 MEPs for the whole of London I don't think it could ever be representative. Ironically, now that a country has actually gone against the trend, there might be a better chance of reform for those that remain, as the arrogant people that run the thing might now be a bit more worried about the will of the people than they were, and seek to give other countries less reason for leaving. The other main problem I had with the EU is that these multinational organisations tend to align with the globalisation / neoliberal agenda which appears to be dominating the western world, and though I'm sad to be associated with the xenophobes, it's something I'll have to accept because this point had to be made.

 

She's no Thatcher, if Thatcher had been in charge Article 50 would have been triggered the moment the Polls closed and a Super Hard Brexit would have happened before Parliament had had a chance to take in the result. Lawyers would be working for both sides now debating whether or not she had broken the law.

 

Wrong decision at the wrong time.

The EU will reform. It will be forced to, or die. We should have had our seat at that table and been in the forefront of bringing about that change.

 

Bang on. I'm also more than miffed to be associated with the Xenophobes. I'm very pro immigration, but anti bureaucratic freeloaders and restrictive legislation. When the working hours directive came in, everyone I knew had to sign a disclaimer waving the regulation. How much of our money did we spend producing that piece of ****e?

 

You are right, it will die.

 

No, it won't. Wishful thinking from leave voters.

The currency, however, is another matter. I can foresee that the single currency zone will shrink.

 

We've heard arguments about EU reform for years together with statements like it's better to be directing how it could reform from the inside than the outside. But nothing happened. As I said, perhaps now they might now do something because they've been shocked/guilted into it by Brexit, but (1) I doubt they would have done anything if we hadn't voted out and (2) I suspect they will do the absolute minimum, trying to show that something has changed, but ensuring that it isn't much. Meanwhile the admission of Turkey might now take a bit longer, but I'm sure it will be in one day.

 

Turkey are a trillion miles away from becoming EU members. I personally doubt it will ever happen. Too much internal strife.

Brexit may have hastened the inevitable, but it was coming anyway.

 

Considering how the single market was created by Thatcher's government as a means to boost British exports to Europe, it is as unlikely that she'd have casually tossed that away as those responsible for jingoistic headlines supporting May's "bravery" will remember that her speech contained one colossal lie, namely her claim that Leave always meant leaving the single market - a claim which is undermined by quotes from various prominent Leavers, including memebrs of May's current cabinet, saying that the UK would remain in the single market no matter what the result.

 

Thatcher hated the EU, she'd have been out quicker than you can say Billy Brandt. She wanted ultimate power and any organisation that removed any of it was the enemy. The NUM found that out. Actually I'm surprised that she bothered to have a Cabinet.

 

Getting rid of the single currency might give them a chance. The fact that the Italians and Greeks can't devalue causes many issues. However, on the plus side for them their industrial powerhouse Germany benifits from the other countries reducing the value of their currency otherwise all of their exports would probably cost double .

If nothing changes this year we will have an Italian Banking crisis, which will probably over-shaddow Brexit. Not too far down the road the Greek situation will go tits up as well. IMHO, the Greeks and the Italians are a bit like the mousers and the mancs, they once ruled the world and the believe it is their right to continue to do so. They spend as much money as they like with impunity and don't have to stick to the rules like everyone else. When everything is going wrong because they've fekked up. they expect as much extra time as necessary to sort it out.

 

Everyone concentrates on economics and immigration when considering Brexit, but the most worrying aspect will be the loss of the ECHR. It's disturbing that this government won't be accountable to the ECHR for the creation and implementation of any laws. There won't be any protection of human rights - which might be a worry for about the 95% of the population who are not white, middle class, male and living in the south of England.

The austerity policies are the really worrying part of it all. We've already seen cuts resulting in people not having proper access to courts and tribunals or the NHS and GPs or those who are disabled or mentally ill or in need of social care being left high and dry. Now there are cuts in education, which might result in schools going to 4 day weeks and abandoning non-curriculum subjects. After Brexit, the government need not fear that any laws they make will be capable of being challenged, however unfair they are to certain individuals or groups in society. They can escalate their plan to pass on payment of the deficit to the poor rather than the rich. At least now, with the government knowing that UK citizens can ultimately hold them to account before the ECHR under human rights principles, they have to rein in some of their more pernicious policies. Post Brexit, they can do what they want

 

I'll be very happy to see the end of the ECHR. We have more than enough Appeal courts in this country already. Our Judges are independent and not fools. A good example of the Government not being able to do what they want is the triggering of Brexit thing. The government have had their wings clipped and will have to put a vote before Parliament.

 

As far as a corrupt gravy-train is concerned here are 3 names that says it all about the EU and in particular the benefits of being an MEP: Neil and Glenys Kinnock & Nigel Farage. I rest my case.....

However, I personally think that over the course of the next 12 months - whether or not the UK had voted Leave last Summer - Netherlands, Finland & Austria are all going to be seeking substantial EU reform and the political situation in France and Italy may also push those in a similar direction. That would be a substantial movement for change!

 

Apparently so - unless they are making informed judgements about the legality of the Leave decision........ In those cases they are publicly identified and vilified in the media as fools and traitors.

And we are so worried about Erdogans' Turkey??

 

If they do change for the better, get rid of the Euro, stop moving the Parliament to Strasbourg for one month a year, get rid of free movement, remove farming subsidies, secure their borders, disband the ECHR etc.etc we could always apply to rejoin.

 

If France elect a pro Frexit government the EU is finished. Or would they call it Frasortie rather than Frexit? The Dutch might even call it Huitgang.

By the way, if people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes?

 

I don't buy into the 'fight for change from within' arguments, we did that for years, and gave them the opportunity to prove willingness with the renegotiation, which was pitiful. The day before the referendum even Juncker himself was adamant that the EU is unreformable - they are wedded to the ideals of the founders and any modern developments would always be of secondary importance to these. I don't think it will implode post-Brexit, nor do I hope it does, but I do think Brexit will provide the trigger to make it democratically accountable and fix the Euro debacle.

For every uninformed racist Brexit supporter, which the polling suggests are an exaggerated minority, there were an equal number of uninformed remainers. Many, particularly the young (of which I am one), had been conditioned by liberal media outlets into thinking that Brexit was a racist proposal, and therefore didn't even attempt to interact with the very legitimate reasons many had for wanting to leave.

 

That's what they mean when they talk about unnecessary red tape.
It's not what people think that they're talking about, but it's what they actually want to get rid of.
Privatise everything and **** the peasants.

 

It is abundantly clear that immigration is/was the major factor behind the decision to vote leave. Much of that driven by shortsighted, narrow minded bigots egged on by the likes of Farage & Co. That and the laughable £350 mill p.w. For the NHS. And, yes, there were some who actually believed that!..

Most of these people are laughably uninformed. Some downright thick. Most of them wouldn't lower themselves to do most of the jobs that the EU immigrants are supposedly stealing.

In many ways, politicians have only themselves to blame; they failed to get their message across. Not long after the vote Bloomberg did a survey in Sunderland, which had voted by some 65+% leave. They asked people what was the reason they voted leave. Two of the majority answers were that if Cameron was for it, they were against. And, it's got to be better than what we've got now. When questioned further it was clear that very few had any clear understanding of what they were voting for, or the likely consequences of doing so.

Cameron gave the vote on probably the most important political issue in decades to a bunch of ignoramuses; and then completely failed to get across the message of just how important this was to the UK's future. Not exactly helped by the terminally self important Corbyn. Who seemed to treat the issue as if it was a personal battle with the Tories.

Now we're left with the increasingly hapless May - who seems more intent on clinging on to her expected new status than getting the best deal for the UK - and the three stooges. She's boxed herself into a corner by practically stating that an end to free movement ( one of the four cornerstones of the EU) is non negotiable. She's firstly told the banks that they're not important, and is now hastily backtracking as they make plans to move staff to mainland Europe.

The EU holds virtually all the cards and the terms of our exit will be as easy or as harsh as they decide to make them. A major amount of diplomacy may just help make things as easy for us a possible. Instead we have May and co sabre rattling before negotiations have even started.