The Politics Thread

And for anyone wanting to see the full Trump In Moscow report.....
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html
He really knows how to take the piss

 

How incompetent are Trump's staff? Why would they ask Church, who's clearly going to hate him?
Did they not do a simple Google search before asking? Ridiculously poor.
Looks like nobody wants to perform at his inauguration, which I find a little surprising.
He's a dick, but so are a lot of famous musicians.

 

The weirdest thing about it is Trump shutting down CNN in his news conference, claiming they spread lies.

While there was a report on the story on CNN, it was them thoroughly debunking the talk of hookers and golden showers - so in other words, Trump calling them liars at best demonstrates how he makes snap decisions despite a complete lack of knowledge and/or context...and at worst he's saying that CNN were wrong to debunk the talk of hookers and golden showers.

What's ultimately stupid about Trump's stance is that every news outlet is covering the story one way or another, some publishing the lurid details while others skirting them within an inch of their lives, so to single out CNN is like giving bloke whose job was to buy the Titanic's deckchairs life imprisonment for the murder of 1500+ people.

 

I like the political comment that Trump is so shameless that whatever comes out
on this topic makes little difference to him.

 

Good Idea!

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'Obama lets Chelsea go free'

Anyone reckon he's angling for a new job as head of the FA?

 

Robert Peston in a rare moment of saying something that isn't utter guff...

 

I know Germany feels deeply wounded by the whole affair, but Die Welt's headline really is ludicrous.

Firstly using the title of a decade old television program, long-forgotten in this country, just shows the enormous cultural influence Britain has around the world - surely evidence we are anything but "little". It's especially rich given that Germany has made virtually zero contribution to the canon of popular culture since it's reunification.

Secondly the headline bears no correlation to the content of the speech, the whole point of which was to promote a more outward looking, globally-focussed rather than EU-centric nation - far from "isolationism". Reactionary media of this sort does the pro-EU cause no favours, it's no better than the 'fake news' they decry so vehemently.

 

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If anything Die Welt's headline is perfectly justifiable, partly because the term Little Englander is well-established, but mainly because it's far more realistic than the headlines splashed across The Sun, Mail, Express et al yesterday where they claimed that May's speech, which was riddled with contradictions as well as all manner of Project Fear statements, was in any way a triumph. That's something which genuinely deserves to be mocked, especially May's quote about always having to have a contingency plan after spending six months fumbling around without a plan, let alone a contingency plan, or for that matter how cameron's cabinet (which included Theresa May as Home Secretary) had two years to prepare for Cameron's gamble backfiring and they never put a second's thought into it.

 

What really annoyed me about her speech the other day was this bit:
'They voted to leave the European Union and embrace the world.
And they did so with their eyes open: accepting that the road ahead will be uncertain at times, but believing that it leads towards a brighter future for their children – and their grandchildren too.'

No they ****ing didn't! The majority of those 51% voting to leave were hoodwinked by either the promised £350m to the NHS or the OTT immigration rhetoric.

 

Source?

Reading the side of that bus during the campaign, not for one moment did I interpret that as a commitment to give the entire sum to the NHS, and I don't believe anyone honestly interpreted it that way. Departmental budgets are decided by the government of the day, not a one-off cross party political campaign.

 

I didn't. I voted for brexit because I knew it would make Sterling fall against a basket of foreign currencies. Somewhat selfish in a way because I get paid in USD, but in addition I saw it as an opportunity to kick-start British exports, particularly in light of up to two years continued membership of the Customs Union and Single Market.

Many people seem to think that the Single Market means everything. To me losing the Customs Union is far more important. I think Mrs May recognises this as well, but it will be a red line for the EU in negociations.

 

Pretty much spot on.

We're being dragged into a very uncertain future by the bigotry and xenophobia of a bunch of knuckle dragging, flag waving ****wits.

 

Not everyone - I know friends and acquaintanceswho voted based on their own carefully thought out ideas.
However the majority of the Red Top readers (and more relevantly the ones who only look at the pictures!) were carried along on that xenophobic wave of hysteria generated by Farage and his ilk.

 

Can I ask people why they are so frightened of change? There is a lot wrong with what we have now, yet people don't seem to want to take a chance to achieve something better? There are too many people on both sides of the political divide who have become complacent, and for whom, the once unacceptable has become the norm.

As an Engineer I'm trained to look at what might go wrong and make sure it doesn't. However, I also have to look at better ways of achieving things, cheaper, more efficient, more practical and with a better result. If one doen't bother to try and improve things, I assure everyone things will not stay the same, they will get worse. Change gives opportunity, some will grasp it and prosper, some will fall by the wayside. That is natural selection, but natural selection is why we are all here today.

We didn't like AVB, so we changed him. We got Rednapp, he was better, we did better but we had problems with Rednapp so we changed him. We got Tim, we didn't do better, so we changed him, we got Poch, we are now doing very nicely thank you, but one day we will change him. Does anybody think that if we had stuck with AVB we would be better off now? I doubt it. Sometime one just has to take a chance in life. People need to big up and grasp opportunities, not sit in their little holes in the ground claiming even if they had a ladder, they'd never want to get out anyway.

 

Not frightened of change - just concerned about change for changes sake.
There are any number of good reasons why our formal relationship with Europe and specifically the EU needed to be addressed but I happened to be one of those who thought:
A) that leaving would (and has) bring turmoil just as we had started to emerge from the worst recession in decades
B) that rather than head into this solo, waiting another 12/18 months would almost certainly have meant taking several other countries with us.

And yes, I also have vested interests in that I earn 70-75% of my income in the U.K. in sterling but live in Ireland and also work in Spain. So the market turmoil and slide of Sterling was certainly something I wanted to avoid.

I am no apologist for the over-bureaucratic and corrupt gravy-train that the EU has become. Just not convinced that the route chosen is the best option.
More than happy to be proven wrong!

 

Exactly.

You'll change nothing by sitting on the outside staring through the window.

The EU will reform, it has to. It would have been good for us to have our seat at that table and be a constructive part of bringing about that reform. But, we've thrown that all away now.

 

People aren't scared of change, they're worried that a choice made by other people on their behalf is negatively affecting them - or to use a football analogy, that would be West Scam willingly entering a shady deal with UK Athletics to get a new stadium at the taxpayer's expense and telling the press how everything would improve overnight, yet the reality is the exact opposite.

The whole issue is the entire EU Referendum was a gamble by Cameron looking to win some cheap political points ahead of the 2015 election, yet he never bothered to put a contingency plan in place in case he ****ed it up - even though the Scottish Referendum should have served as a warning considering how he damn near pissed that one up the wall.

On the subject of the referendum it's worth pointing out one of the many, many fallacies about the campaign: we're told that Corbyn didn't "do enough" yet he made 123 media appearances to campaign for remain - yet another prominent Remainer made just 29. Their name? Theresa May, who was Home Secretary at the time. So where's the people saying she didn't "do enough" during the referendum, especially given the status of her office? Or would suggesting she put her political career above all else shatter the "safe pair of hands" Narrative we've had rammed down our throats ever since she Kim Jong-un'd her way into Downing Street?

There's another reason I targeted Theresa May there: she may be a change in the literal sense, but in reality she isn't. She throws around soundbites that mean nothing like Cameron, she dodges and evades questions at PMQs like cameron, she uses dead cat tactics that the press lap up just like Cameron, she uses the same bullying tactics as Cameron - and is just as perplexed as Cameron when they don't work or backfire. Yet we're told she's a change, and one for the better, because I guess if the Express squint just enough they can pretend Thatcher's still in charge.

 

That's quite a well balanced answer. I certainly considered whether it would be worth staying inside the EU and fighting for change from within. However, the over-bureaucratic and corrupt gravy-train as you quite aptly put it, are going to fight like hell to maintain their lifestyle and justify there position.

I once sold a house in Ashford in Kent to a member of the Irish EU contingent. I asked her why she was buying in Ashford rather than Brussells. She told me if she lived in Brussells she would be given a flat and all rental expenses would be paid directly. By buying in Ashford, she would get an allowance that would pay off her mortgage quickly and the EU would provide her with a season ticket on the Eurostar in order to commute everyday. In my book thats wrong.