Off Topic The Politics Thread

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
sb_73 said:
I think it's quite clear Goldie, if you are an illegal immigrant who is a 'flight risk' , in other words you could try and hide from the authorities who want to deport you in the country you have illegally entered, or try to get into another country illegally, you can be detained. It's just that the French aren't doing it. And all those trying at Calais are breaking the law anyway.
Click to expand...

No, look at the facts of this case. This was a Ghanaian woman who tried to get into the UK with a false passport. The French were not able to hold her legally after she was caught

Per the Telegraph 7th June

"People can only be locked up if they later fail to comply with a deportation order, if letting them go risks undermining the deportation order, or if they are convicted of another offence."

This means migrants can make repeated attempts to get into the UK illegally as a result of this EU ruling
 
finglasqpr said:
So that is an internal French matter. It is nothing got to do with the EU. You have self control at present.
Click to expand...


It has everything to do with the EU. The French police the entry onto Eurotunnel. This results from a bilateral agreement. If they catch an illegal immigrant trying to get into the UK at the French end, then they cannot now keep that immigrant in custody, as a result of the ECJ ruling. They have to let them go, and guess what - they'll try to get in again and again

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...grants-go-free-eu-court-orders-calais-police/
 
sb_73 said:
EU Campaign Literature Review

- the much discussed official Government pamphlet being sent to every household - not received at my household
- Leave.eu - Farage's mob - a leaflet asking for my cash and volunteer time. No arguments at all
- Vote Leave - official Brexit gang, led by Mr Kurtz aka Gove Two 4 page leaflets the centre pages of which are identical. All the usual stuff about £350m, a map to show me where Turkey and Albania are etc, some sound bites by has beens, a claim that Unilever said they would not reduce UK jobs, when the CEO was on the radio last week saying they would have to look at it, and one very good question. Does admit that there are risks in leaving.
- the Labour IN for Britain leaflet, lots of 'ordinary people' stories, only politician featured Alan Johnson

No help at all, because if you read them side by side it is evident that one or both of the campaigns are lying.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Stan.

I noted the other day I hadn't seen any leaflets and my other half (who has already posted her vote) said "Really? I've had 4 bits". Now if you tell me it's not personally addressed then I'll be reliant on your above summary while the recycling bin ponders it's referendum stance...
 
GoldhawkRd said:
It has everything to do with the EU. The French police the entry onto Eurotunnel. This results from a bilateral agreement. If they catch an illegal immigrant trying to get into the UK at the French end, then they cannot now keep that immigrant in custody, as a result of the ECJ ruling. They have to let them go, and guess what - they'll try to get in again and again

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...grants-go-free-eu-court-orders-calais-police/
Click to expand...
Keep dreaming Goldy and keep trying to point fingers when you have no grounds to do so. There are people committing all sorts of crimes all over the place that affect other countries from terrorism to narcotics to fraud to immigration crime. Each country is responsible for ensuring the correct action is taken against the perpetrators. If you police your border properly, no matter how many attempts are made to gain entry, people should not gain entry. If people do gain entry, your controls are not good enough and that will not differ whether you are in or out. No use trying to blame others for your own inefficiencies.
 
Just seen this in facebook, it is titled "brainspotting" with a picture of Bojo.

"Choose leave. Choose a recession. Choose losing your job. Choose a house price crash. Choose queueing at airports and wondering what the **** you did in the referendum. Choose higher mortgage repayments. Choose decline. Choose more expensive imports. Choose higher petrol prices. Choose watching Boris ****ing Johnston tear up the NHS with his tory pals. Choose higher phone bills and a **** exchange rate when you go on holidays. Choose import tax. Choose export paperwork. Choose the rest of the world wondering why you have ****ed up your own country out of your own free will. Choose Scotland leaving the UK. Choose your future. Choose unemployment. Choose leave".
 
finglasqpr said:
Keep dreaming Goldy and keep trying to point fingers when you have no grounds to do so. There are people committing all sorts of crimes all over the place that affect other countries from terrorism to narcotics to fraud to immigration crime. Each country is responsible for ensuring the correct action is taken against the perpetrators. If you police your border properly, no matter how many attempts are made to gain entry, people should not gain entry. If people do gain entry, your controls are not good enough and that will not differ whether you are in or out. No use trying to blame others for your own inefficiencies.
Click to expand...

Are you aware of the bilateral agreement between the UK and France in respect of Eurotunnel, Fing? Immigration checks take place (by the French authorities) in France before boarding, NOT on disembarkation in the UK

Does that change your view?
 
  • Like
Reactions: rangercol and vblockiain
sb_73 said:
What is your criteria for a 'good leader'? Let's make it someone who can win two general elections. So in my lifetime you have Thatcher and Cameron (well one and a half for Cameron, the first was a coalition). For Labour you have Wilson and Blair.

One time winners - Heath and Major. Poor show labour

Leaders who became PM even though they didn't win an election - Douglas-Home, Callaghan, Brown.

Wooden spoon holders - Hague, IBS, Howard, Gaitskell (unfair, died in office), Foot, Kinnock, Smith (unfair, died in office), Milliband, Corbyn.

Strikes me that both parties are getting worse at picking a leader.

In the event of stay, Priti Patel will become leader of UKIP.

In the event of Brexit Ruth Davidson will be ineligible, as a citizen of a foreign country. Though the idea of John Redwood and Jacob Rees Mogg being lead by a Scottish lesbian rugby player is very enticing. Make it so!
Click to expand...

Some interesting points, but I think it's too crude a measure to pick a 'good leader' by number of elections won. Major somehow managing to win in 1992 'against all odds' is a remarkable achievement considering it followed three Thatcher wins, and it is hardly surprising that he lost in 1997. The caveat, of course, is that you could argue that he failed to keep any sense of unity from '94 onward. Likewise, Howard, I would argue, was a good leader despite not winning an election. A safe pair of hands, yes, but he eroded a large part of the Labour majority and build a platform for Cameron to 'win' in 2010. Again, can you really blame Hague for the loss in '97 etc etc?

Don't underestimate Davidson!!
 
GoldhawkRd said:
Are you aware of the bilateral agreement between the UK and France in respect of Eurotunnel, Fing? Immigration checks take place (by the French authorities) in France before boarding, NOT on disembarkation in the UK

Does that change your view?
Click to expand...
I have travelled on the Eurotunnel Goldy and I thought the checks were quite stringent on both sides. Very similar to the controls in any airport. How would that change my view? You still have full control of who enters your country and you are still entitled to ask to see passports to ensure illegals are not admitted. Whats the problem, do you not trust the French to carry out their side of the deal? If I was in charge of immigration and I didn't think one side were doing their duty, I would put a plan B in place to ensure illegals do not enter.
 
finglasqpr said:
Whats the problem, do you not trust the French to carry out their side of the deal?
Click to expand...

The French do their job, arrest attempted illegal migrants including those with false or stolen passports, and then as a result of latest EU law, have to release them to try again

If you still believe that has nothing to do with the EU, then clearly there's nothing I can do to convince you
 
GoldhawkRd said:
The French do their job, arrest attempted illegal migrants including those with false or stolen passports, and then as a result of latest EU law, have to release them to try again

If you still believe that has nothing to do with the EU, then clearly there's nothing I can do to convince you
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to convince me. If the French do nothing against people committing crimes in their country, that is their prerogative. It only affects your country because your immigration controls are not sufficient to prevent illegals entering. That is the case with 99% of countries not just the UK. Blame yourselves for that, not France or the EU.
 
I have just seen the Vote Leave broadcast, all about the NHS. It was a ****ing disgrace, the people responsible for it should be shamed and ashamed.
 
finglasqpr said:
Just seen this in facebook, it is titled "brainspotting" with a picture of Bojo.

"Choose leave. Choose a recession. Choose losing your job. Choose a house price crash. Choose queueing at airports and wondering what the **** you did in the referendum. Choose higher mortgage repayments. Choose decline. Choose more expensive imports. Choose higher petrol prices. Choose watching Boris ****ing Johnston tear up the NHS with his tory pals. Choose higher phone bills and a **** exchange rate when you go on holidays. Choose import tax. Choose export paperwork. Choose the rest of the world wondering why you have ****ed up your own country out of your own free will. Choose Scotland leaving the UK. Choose your future. Choose unemployment. Choose leave".
Click to expand...
sb_73 said:
I have just seen the Vote Leave broadcast, all about the NHS. It was a ****ing disgrace, the people responsible for it should be shamed and ashamed.
Click to expand...
It was better than the one about the lottery marginally :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: rangercol
finglasqpr said:
Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to convince me. If the French do nothing against people committing crimes in their country, that is their prerogative. It only affects your country because your immigration controls are not sufficient to prevent illegals entering. That is the case with 99% of countries not just the UK. Blame yourselves for that, not France or the EU.
Click to expand...


Fingy, may I politely ask, why are you getting so involved in this debate? It's not as if you have a vote or it involves your Country.

Seriously interested..............not having a go!
 
GoldhawkRd said:
In fairness to Redwood, he said several times that the £350m plus figure was gross, and net was about half that.

Agree about Woolleston. She's shown herself to be incredibly lightweight to flip-flop on such a vital issue because she has a problem withe the messengers. Lacking both courage and conviction
Click to expand...


There are strong rumours coming out of Westminster that she was a plant and her leaving the Brexit campaign was all planned in advance.
 
rangercol said:
There are strong rumours coming out of Westminster that she was a plant and her leaving the Brexit campaign was all planned in advance.
Click to expand...
Surely they would have asked someone more substantial to do that? This'll be forgotten tomorrow. Westminster is dissolving into a puddle of fear and loathing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rangercol
rangercol said:
Fingy, may I politely ask, why are you getting so involved in this debate? It's not as if you have a vote or it involves your Country.

Seriously interested..............not having a go!
Click to expand...
I care about the economic wellbeing of Europe as a whole and I care about Ireland's relationship with the UK. A leave vote would leave us with all sorts of problems over here, not least of which is Northern Ireland and the peace process. At the moment, you hardly notice that you have crossed the land border. A leave vote may affect the peace process and would mean customs checks and delays on both sides. On a personal level, I still have pension interests in the UK and a strong UK is good for my pension and my retirement. I hope that answers your question Col. I am trying not to interfere and realise it is a vote for the UK people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back