Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Stroller said:
Just joking mate. There's a quote in there from a DrMahmood Shah.
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Ah. :emoticon-0111-blush

I completely missed that. Whoosh straight over my head.

To compound things, she had Labour MP Rupa Huq defending her earlier on the 'Today' show. She defended Naz Shah's actions as a merely 'silly' mistake and insisted: “Naz Shah did not write any anti-Semitic tracts, she just clicked share“. Errr, Shah typed the words “the Jews are rallying”…

Huq then compared tweeting a graphic of Israelis being transported out of the Middle East to tweeting a funny photo of Boris Johnson on a zip-wire. Is another Labour MP going to have to apologise for her comments on anti-Semitism? A classic case of going on the radio and not having a clue what you’re talking about…

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QPR999 said:
Ah. :emoticon-0111-blush

I completely missed that. Whoosh straight over my head.

To compound things, she had Labour MP Rupa Huq defending her earlier on the 'Today' show. She defended Naz Shah's actions as a merely 'silly' mistake and insisted: “Naz Shah did not write any anti-Semitic tracts, she just clicked share“. Errr, Shah typed the words “the Jews are rallying”…

Huq then compared tweeting a graphic of Israelis being transported out of the Middle East to tweeting a funny photo of Boris Johnson on a zip-wire. Is another Labour MP going to have to apologise for her comments on anti-Semitism? A classic case of going on the radio and not having a clue what you’re talking about…

Have a listen ...
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Embarrassing.

Shah herself, after her fulsome apology, actually comes better out of this than Livingstone.

No reason you would have got my dumb joke btw.
 
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Stroller said:
It would be reasonable to assume that this would damage Trump, but it probably won't. Nothing seems to.
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I'm wondering about the validity of this story now. I can't see it being reported anywhere else, so you're probably right mate unfortunately.
 
Stroller said:
I'm confused. If I am critical of the Israeli state, am I anti-semitic? If I am critical of the Islamic faith, am I racist?
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No to both questions.

I think there is a problem with a minority on the labour far left who have a fixed world view of hating America and Israel.
However, I take your point that criticising Israel does not make you anti semitic.
Some, like Livingston go further though and are undoubtedly anti semitic.
 
delighted the even hand the beeb have played so far in this very important issue. Although the former DG, Lord Patten and Euro fanatic, has urged the BBC to be more partisan. Don't you just love democracy
 
Stroller said:
She should have listened to her dad.
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There's a serious side to that question - as taken from Wiki:-

"Born in Bradford, Shah was abandoned by her father when six years old after he ran off with their neighbour's sixteen-year-old daughter. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan to avoid her mother, Zoora's, violent partner, whom Zoora fatally poisoned because she believed he was planning to sexually abuse her daughters. She served 14 years in prison for his murder. While in Pakistan, Shah was forced into an arranged marriage..."

I've lived a sheltered life.
 
rangercol said:
No to both questions.

I think there is a problem with a minority on the labour far left who have a fixed world view of hating America and Israel.
However, I take your point that criticising Israel does not make you anti semitic.
Some, like Livingston go further though and are undoubtedly anti semitic.
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It goes beyond. McDonnell and Co have a history of supporting and justifying violent struggle - IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah etc
 
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GoldhawkRd said:
There's a serious side to that question - as taken from Wiki:-

"Born in Bradford, Shah was abandoned by her father when six years old after he ran off with their neighbour's sixteen-year-old daughter. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan to avoid her mother, Zoora's, violent partner, whom Zoora fatally poisoned because she believed he was planning to sexually abuse her daughters. She served 14 years in prison for his murder. While in Pakistan, Shah was forced into an arranged marriage..."

I've lived a sheltered life.
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Yes, I really wish I hadn't posted that.
 
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I think the lesson that Naz Shah, Ken Livingstone and others need to understand is that whilst it's fine to criticise people, people groups and countries where you feel there are grounds to so do, you need to be aware of the consequences of using language that is inappropriate to the group you are targeting. This is the issue that Labour are having now, and the issue that is coming back to bite those in public office who so vocally berated the Liverpool fans after Hillsborough.

Clearly using words like 'solution' when talking about forcibly relocating the world's jewish population is wrong. Had the word been used when talking about the French, then not so much.

Forced relocation is always going to run the risk of accusations of racism. Imagine if she'd said it about Muslims, or the refugees in Europe, or even Black Americans? That's something not even Donald Trump would say.

Basic rule, regimes are fine, but people groups are probably not. And think before you post or speak, whether you hold office, aspire to hold office, or want to keep your current cushy job in Westminster or elsewhere....
 
Stroller said:
I wasn't trying to justify Livingstone's mad ramblings, Yorkshire. Just posing genuine, albeit rhetorical, questions.
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Stroller said:
I wasn't trying to justify Livingstone's mad ramblings, Yorkshire. Just posing genuine, albeit rhetorical, questions.
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My sincere apology. I had not intended my post as insinuating that you are either anti-Semitic or racist. As you said it was a genuine albeit rhetorical question and I gave a genuine opinion to the question asked. I agree entirely that Livingstone's ramblings were mad. The art of conceding gracefully and moving the debate to any valid points they might have is something that few politicians have successfully mastered. Tony Blair was the most notable exception to the rule. It was not until he was brought to account for Iraq that he fell into the political mainstream of never owning up to your mistakes and always trying to tell anyone who cared to listen that you were right and, in fact, always are.
 
YorkshireHoopster said:
My sincere apology. I had not intended my post as insinuating that you are either anti-Semitic or racist. As you said it was a genuine albeit rhetorical question and I gave a genuine opinion to the question asked. I agree entirely that Livingstone's ramblings were mad. The art of conceding gracefully and moving the debate to any valid points they might have is something that few politicians have successfully mastered. Tony Blair was the most notable exception to the rule. It was not until he was brought to account for Iraq that he fell into the political mainstream of never owning up to your mistakes and always trying to tell anyone who cared to listen that you were right and, in fact, always are.
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No apology needed, Yorkshire.
 
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