Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Well after 5 days working in the States absolutely everyone I have asked puts Cruz as by far the most dangerous candidate, even die hard economic Republicians. He's a nutter, he actually believes the crap he comes out with. Trump is a chancer, but neither he nor Cruz can win the presidency. Bernie gets some respect but everyone expects Clinton to be the next President........if she isn't indicted first, which appears a growing possibility.
They could wind up with a contested convention, at which anything might happen. Kasich could yet end up with the nomination.
no wonder Kinnochio is keen on remaining. How has that wind-bag amassed a £10m fortune and is on a £100k pension. Shocking
Boris Johnson accuses Obama of hypocrisy for suggesting Britain should remain in the EU, because the US itself would never dream of sharing it's sovereignty with another entity.
Actually, I don't think that is hypocrisy at all. Britain staying in the EU and the US retaining sovereignty for itself are both wholly in the US interest.
There's a lesson in there somewhere.
Actually, I don't think that is hypocrisy at all. Britain staying in the EU and the US retaining sovereignty for itself are both wholly in the US interest.
There's a lesson in there somewhere.
One of the lessons for Boris might be to drop his wondrously witty sound bites (Cameron and Osborne are apparently like Gerald Ratner in some way too) and whining about unfairness in the campaign and start making a positive case for Brexit. Then he wouldn't be buried on page 15 of the Times, with the bulk of the story about him abusing a TV journo for doing a report to camera during his speech, and after pages of stuff on how rich Tony Blair is. I'll probably be voting stay, but I think there is a much stronger case for Brexit than has been made, and I'd like a chance to hear it.
Johnson is doing himself no favours in this campaign. His 'let's spend the cash we would get from Brexit on building new hospitals' bit of populism stinks. The problem we have with the NHS (or one of them at least) isn't number of hospitals or beds it's the lack of staff to run them efficiently and lack of social care to get people out of them. Plus of course, the 'windfall' from leaving will be tiny. I'm sure he knows both these things, and certainly wouldn't be spending cash either on new hospitals or pay rises for hospital staff which may stop a few of them leaving, or even reduce our reliance on non UK doctors and nurses, if he achieves his ambition to become PM. He is a mendacious ****er, Trump lite.
Sir Ian Botham has come out, with a script full of lies, hatred and paranoia from Nigel Farridge, as a Brexiter. Using words like 'patriotic duty'. Now there is a surprise, I must review my position immediately.
Coming up:
John Terry on immigration
Paula Radcliffe on military intervention in the Middle East
Pele on the debt crisis
Armand Traore on education
Now Boris is talking about 'destiny'. Come on then, what is our 'destiny'? I'm fascinated.
Coming up:
John Terry on immigration
Paula Radcliffe on military intervention in the Middle East
Pele on the debt crisis
Armand Traore on education
Now Boris is talking about 'destiny'. Come on then, what is our 'destiny'? I'm fascinated.
Johnson is only concerned with his own destiny. I think his transparent opportunism could actually be damaging to the Out campaign. Everybody knows he doesn't really believe the bollocks he spouts.
Trump lite. I really am developing a deep and sincere dislike of him.
My wife, who is genuinely undecided on how she will vote, just summed up the Brexit campaign as "we're British, it'll all be fine".
I think, and definitely hope, I'm overplaying this, but there are some really troubling undertones in all this. At the moment it's all about the enemy without, 'faceless bureaucrats', unequal treaties, US presidents with an opinion. Should Brexit lose it will be blamed on the enemy within, traitors, anti-patriots, communists, foreigners and 'unfairness'. Should they win, and things don't change for the better immediately (especially on immigration) they will shift blame by focussing even more on the enemy within. Never their fault, others always conspiring to deny us our non existent 'destiny', populism with a sinister underbelly.
to accuse all who will vote out in the above terms is quite ridiculous
Good job I'm not then, though to jump to that conclusion shows an element of paranoia. This is a serious topic and the voters deserve a serious debate. There is an element about some of the professional Brexiters that worries me. Hopefully without reason. I said above that there is probably a case for Brexit, but we are not hearing it, because the leave campaign is all about whining and (from Johnson) increasingly personal attacks. And yes, I agree that the remain campaign is all scaremongering crap too. This has been the most pathetic, shallow few months of politics I can ever remember, and Johnson is the epitome of it.
You did actually.
There are just as many odious characters in the remain camp. Dave and Osborne for a srart.
Many of those advocating remain are the same people/organisations who wanted us to join the Euro.
They were wrong then and they're wrong now.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with patriotism and wanting your own Country to be a sovereign nation, rather than being dictated to by unelected beaurocrats from another Country.
When small nations aspire to this, even the ones within the UK it is widely viewed as pride in their national identity etc.
When the English do it, it's never long before people, usually more to the left of politics, start trotting out the same old stuff about "sinister overtones" etc etc.
I do believe the campaign in both camps will become seriously nasty, with the Tories being seriously damaged whatever the outcome
Two-thirds of Tory supporters are likely to to vote Leave, so Cameron will be relying on Corbyn to get the Labour Remain vote out. Corbyn himself has been anti-Europe in the past, but made what I thought was a well-judged speech the other day, justifying the official Labour Remain position based on protecting workers' rights.
Corbyn is being completely hypocritical about the entire issue. He's been against our membership of the EU for 40 years.
Our destiny is to govern ourselves.
Having now read what Botham said, I think he was absolutely spot on.
The party's official line is to remain and he is its leader. His support in the week was not unequivocal, but he managed to make a good socialist case for remaining.
