Off Topic The Politics Thread

[TWGWTDT]

Agreed.
Ground troops will need to follow.

We all agree that this is tricky and our ground troops will need to work with planned 150,000 Russians.
It maybe a the a landmark event if the west and Russia go in together however the issue of interests in the area by the big powers
We will have to accept maybe at last where exactly we sit in the world of military might
This thing I reckon hinges on the US and Russia joining to sort this out.

I am not even sure this thing is even about terrorists

 

[Chaz]

I am not even sure this thing is even about terrorists

Prize for #1 dumb statement. Of course it's about terrorists.

All that yesterday's decision did in reality is decide that we no longer need to stop our attacks on IS simply because they cross an arbitrary border that they have never recognised. We are not using any more force or different tactics against them than we have been doing in Iraq for over a year. The only thing that has changed is that now their actions and influence in Iraq has been reduced through airstrikes and local ground forces, they have moved into Syria, and we now have the UN mandate to join with the other coalition nations in keeping up the chase.

There's a couple of analogies here.

Prior to this, we were like The Dukes Of Hazzard. only we were'n't Bo and Luke, we were Sheriff Roscoe P Coltrane. Once they crossed the county line, we simply had to stop.

Now, we're like those cops who can cross county and national borders if they declare themselves in 'active pursuit'. We are following our targets where they go when they run for cover.

We're no more and no less at risk than we were before the decision. and diminishing IS's resources and ability to grow and stabilise their power base is an important step in the overall process. Air strikes are not going to defeat them on their own, but it's important not to sit on our hands and let them grow whilst we work on the strategies that will.

 

[rangercol]

Can I just say that I absolutely loved Hillary Benn's speech in the house yesterday.
I've always quite liked him and he could well be the next leader of the labour party.
Can I also just say that some of the bullying and vilifying of labour MPs by some of Corbyn's left wing associates has been a complete disgrace!

 

[Stroller]

Can I just say that I absolutely loved Hillary Benn's speech in the house yesterday.
I've always quite liked him and he could well be the next leader of the labour party.
Can I also just say that some of the bullying and vilifying of labour MPs by some of Corbyn's left wing associates has been a complete disgrace!

The attempted bullying of some Labour MPs by the left wing of the party was indeed deplorable Col, but it paled into insignificance compared to Cameron's disgraceful refusal to apologise for his disgusting description of anyone who voted against him as a 'terrorist sympathiser'.

Benn gave Cameron a lesson in statesmanship.

 

[TWGWTDT]

Prize for #1 dumb statement. Of course it's about terrorists.

All that yesterday's decision did in reality is decide that we no longer need to stop our attacks on IS simply because they cross an arbitrary border that they have never recognised. We are not using any more force or different tactics against them than we have been doing in Iraq for over a year. The only thing that has changed is that now their actions and influence in Iraq has been reduced through airstrikes and local ground forces, they have moved into Syria, and we now have the UN mandate to join with the other coalition nations in keeping up the chase.

There's a couple of analogies here.

Prior to this, we were like The Dukes Of Hazzard. only we were'n't Bo and Luke, we were Sheriff Roscoe P Coltrane. Once they crossed the county line, we simply had to stop.

Now, we're like those cops who can cross county and national borders if they declare themselves in 'active pursuit'. We are following our targets where they go when they run for cover.

We're no more and no less at risk than we were before the decision. and diminishing IS's resources and ability to grow and stabilise their power base is an important step in the overall process. Air strikes are not going to defeat them on their own, but it's important not to sit on our hands and let them grow whilst we work on the strategies that will.

Is it really ?
Watch and learn

 

[rangercol]

TE="Stroller, post: 8650772, member: 1025402"]The attempted bullying of some Labour MPs by the left wing of the party was indeed deplorable Col, but it paled into insignificance compared to Cameron's disgraceful refusal to apologise for his disgusting description of anyone who voted against him as a 'terrorist sympathiser'.

Benn gave Cameron a lesson in statesmanship.[/QUOTE]

Completely agree mate.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

The attempted bullying of some Labour MPs by the left wing of the party was indeed deplorable Col, but it paled into insignificance compared to Cameron's disgraceful refusal to apologise for his disgusting description of anyone who voted against him as a 'terrorist sympathiser'.

Benn gave Cameron a lesson in statesmanship.

Don't condone Cameron's stupid reference, but there have been death threats to Labour MP's and at least one is bringing in the police

 

[Stroller]

Don't condone Cameron's stupid reference, but there have been death threats to Labour MP's and at least one is bringing in the police

OK - not to condone them, but similar threats are made outside most pubs every weekend. They are not to be taken seriously.

Cameron's shameful 'reference' could have been similarly dismissed had he apologised, but he is too small a man. He demeans the position of Prime Minister.

 

[rangercol]

OK - not to condone them, but similar threats are made outside most pubs every weekend. They are not to be taken seriously.

Cameron's shameful 'reference' could have been similarly dismissed had he apologised, but he is too small a man. He demeans the position of Prime Minister.

I'm not sure any politicians demean their positions quite like the terrorist sympathisers Corbyn and his odious shadow chancellor McDonnell.

 

[Chaz]

Is it really ?
Watch and learn

Yes. It is. Have you not been watching and learning?

 

[Stroller]

I'm not sure any politicians demean their positions quite like the terrorist sympathisers Corbyn and his odious shadow chancellor McDonnell.

Back on message I see, Col.

 

[Chaz]

I'm not sure any politicians demean their positions quite like the terrorist sympathisers Corbyn and his odious shadow chancellor McDonnell.

They are not terrorist sympathisers. However, they are clearly willing to abide terrorism, and even meet with and enjoy the company of terrorists and terrorist supporters when it suits their own ends and reflects their own politics.

I'd have been happy with the term 'IRA Sympathisers', because they clearly were/are.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

They are not terrorist sympathisers. However, they are clearly willing to abide terrorism, and even meet with and enjoy the company of terrorists and terrorist supporters when it suits their own ends and reflects their own politics.

I'd have been happy with the term 'IRA Sympathisers', because they clearly were/are.

Without trying to open old wounds, and with full respect to those of all creeds in government in Northern Ireland trying make a peaceful and prosperous society...the IRA were terrorists. The shot and blew up British soldiers and Protestant civilians, they murdered Catholics including a mother with a family of young children , they murdered an English child on the mainland and they blew up Irish children when they assassinated Mountbatten.

In your words, Chaz, if you abide this terrorism, meet and enjoy the company of terrorists and their supporters when it suits your own ends - then if that isn't a terrorist sympathiser, I don't know what is. McDonnell positively encouraged terrorists. His words in 2003:

“It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.”

I found his "from the bottom of the heart" apology sickening, made solely to further his political career

 

[Chaz]

Without trying to open old wounds, and with full respect to those of all creeds in government in Northern Ireland trying make a peaceful and prosperous society...the IRA were terrorists. The shot and blew up British soldiers and Protestant civilians, they murdered Catholics including a mother with a family of young children , they murdered an English child on the mainland and they blew up Irish children when they assassinated Mountbatten.

In your words, Chaz, if you abide this terrorism, meet and enjoy the company of terrorists and their supporters when it suits your own ends - then if that isn't a terrorist sympathiser, I don't know what is. McDonnell positively encouraged terrorists. His words in 2003:

“It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.”

I found his "from the bottom of the heart" apology sickening, made solely to further his political career

My comment was trying to make a differentiation between sympathising with all terrorists (which Col / the PM appear to have clumsily done) and sympathy for a specific cause. I completely agree with the IRA being terrorists, and Corbyn / McDonnell will always be held in contempt by me because of their association with these murderers. Just saying that their love for the IRA doesn't mean they love all terrorists. Just the Irish ones...

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

My comment was trying to make a differentiation between sympathising with all terrorists (which Col / the PM appear to have clumsily done) and sympathy for a specific cause. I completely agree with the IRA being terrorists, and Corbyn / McDonnell will always be held in contempt by me because of their association with these murderers. Just saying that their love for the IRA doesn't mean they love all terrorists. Just the Irish ones...

I take your point, but remember Corbyn is also a big supporter of Hezbollah

 

[Stroller]

I take your point, but remember Corbyn is also a big supporter of Hezbollah

Corbyn's response to criticism of his using the term 'friends' re Hezbollah and Hamas:

He said: "I spoke at a meeting about the Middle East crisis in parliament and there were people there from Hezbollah and I said I welcomed our friends from Hezbollah to have a discussion and a debate, and I said I wanted Hamas to be part of that debate. I have met Hamas in Lebanon and I've met Hezbollah in this country and Lebanon.
"I'm saying that people I talk to, I use it in a collective way, saying our friends are prepared to talk.
"Does it mean I agree with Hamas and what it does? No. Does it mean I agree with Hezbollah and what they do? No. What it means is that I think to bring about a peace process, you have to talk to people with whom you may profoundly disagree.
"There is not going to be a peace process unless there is talks involving Israel, Hezbollah and Hamas and I think everyone knows that."

You and Col seem to have readily taken to the Tory spin machine's re-focus of Cameron's disgraceful 'terrorist sympathisers' slur away from anybody who opposed the Syria bombing and towards Corbyn and McDonnell specifically. Nobody that voted against the bombing sympathises with ISIS terrorists and Cameron should apologise for having appeared to suggest that they do.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Nobody that voted against the bombing sympathises with ISIS terrorists

Certainly most, perhaps all, did not.

Cameron can justifiably describe McDonnell as a terrorist sympathiser - possibly now lapsed, but who really knows? Corbyn too, has form, whatever his weazel words now

Cameron was wrong to infer that those others, apart from Corbyn and McDonnell, were terrorist sympathisers.

 

[TWGWTDT]

Yes. It is. Have you not been watching and learning?

If you look outside the UK media you may get a different picture in your mind. I have found that what is reported in the UK is not always accurate.
Example?
The last time this happened was a few months ago as I travelled through Calais and stopped in the surrounded area. no problems just people going getting on with life
Yet that evening when back in London I saw footage and drama labelled 'swarm' and crisis and petrol bomb and how it was at breaking point.
Rubbish I was there exactly at the time this was reported. There was a relaxed mood everywhere and people of all countries and no one knew who was who.

I walk home through London streets every night at the moment doing the same

Fast Forward after the Paris attacks then all of a sudden it's a swarm of terrorists on our door.
Then everyone went shopping on Black Friday.
I say again that if any terror cell wanted to make a impact in the UK then look at our petrol garages …
Average UK petrol station has 3,700 customers a day
35 million tons of fuel a year … thats 44 million litres of petrol a day and 76 million litres of diesel per day!!!
Over a million lighters sold each day

that why I am not certain this thing all about these terrorists groups

This is a unique country where people attempt to own the news and the bloody weather.

The media in the UK is nothing but entertainment and it's controlled to make people react like puppets

Tighter security measures and ID cards … oh no money to do this to make people safe but plenty of money to spend on arms

What this is in the UK is spreading total fear in a way to control people

 

[Chaz]

If you look outside the UK media you may get a different picture in your mind. I have found that what is reported in the UK is not always accurate.
Example?
The last time this happened was a few months ago as I travelled through Calais and stopped in the surrounded area. no problems just people going getting on with life
Yet that evening when back in London I saw footage and drama labelled 'swarm' and crisis and petrol bomb and how it was at breaking point.
Rubbish I was there exactly at the time this was reported. There was a relaxed mood everywhere and people of all countries and no one knew who was who.

I walk home through London streets every night at the moment doing the same

Fast Forward after the Paris attacks then all of a sudden it's a swarm of terrorists on our door.
Then everyone went shopping on Black Friday.
I say again that if any terror cell wanted to make a impact in the UK then look at our petrol garages …
Average UK petrol station has 3,700 customers a day
35 million tons of fuel a year … thats 44 million litres of petrol a day and 76 million litres of diesel per day!!!
Over a million lighters sold each day

that why I am not certain this thing all about these terrorists groups

This is a unique country where people attempt to own the news and the bloody weather.

The media in the UK is nothing but entertainment and it's controlled to make people react like puppets

Tighter security measures and ID cards … oh no money to do this to make people safe but plenty of money to spend on arms

What this is in the UK is spreading total fear in a way to control people

If it's NOT all about the terrorists, then what IS it about? and please don't say it's a warmongering media driven by or driving an inbred need for colonial expansion, because that's crap and you know it, even if the comment above clearly shows you want us to think that.

 

[rangercol]

Back on message I see, Col.

Just my opinion mate.
Ken Livingstone's comments about the 7/7 bombers was just as odious.