Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Star of David Bardsley]

But not funded by those at the bottom!!

Cutting taxes can generate more tax revenue, or at least not make a difference. It's a lot more complex than the nasty Tories taking money away from the poor and giving it to a load of ex-Eton schoolboys

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Cutting taxes can generate more tax revenue, or at least not make a difference. It's a lot more complex than the nasty Tories taking money away from the poor and giving it to a load of ex-Eton schoolboys

In purely simplistic terms it actually isn't!!

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

There is a child at my daughters school whose mother (single) works at our local college. It is now the college holidays and being on a zero hours contract she is not entitled to any pay during this time

The DWP stopped her benefits in error the moment she got this work (which was sporadic at best).

She is now in dire straits having had no income at all for several months.

Her daughter currently has no access to heating or hot water ( utility company cut off her supply ), her neighbours and my family are feeding her and supplying her with clothes and shoes.

The CAB have been little help but their family GP has said he will refer them to a food bank with vouchers for 3 days worth of food.

Unfortunately, they cant cook any of the food as they have no gas.

Tories would label them " benefit scroungers" but they are working.

Would that ****ing count???!!!!

An error in those circumstances is poor, bordering on unforgivable - but it's an exceptional case.

The definition of poverty in the UK brought in by Gordon Brown is household after-tax income of below 60 per cent of the national average. So its relative. And no matter how wealthy this country gets, under this definition, there will always be people in "poverty" n the UK.

There is dire poverty in the world, but I struggle to believe it is in the UK. There are so many benefit safety nets, it is simply avoidable. Among many social workers now, the test whether a child is in poverty in the UK is whether they are obese. I'm far from convinced that things are the same now as they were 80 years ago after the Great Depression, when there was true poverty and hardship in parts of the UK

 

[ELLERS]

It's future investment decisions by companies that are most at risk, they are not going to rip up existing infrastructure and supply/distribution networks overnight. But if a company aim is to sell in the EU, it will always be easier to do that from within the EU than sitting on its edge.

Would I rather have banking in Britain or Greece? Unfair question the alternative is Germany, and it wouldn't bother me either way, except costs are higher in Germany. The reason we are a financial hub is that transactions are taxed relatively lightly here.

Agree re the Euro - I am fully behind the concept (it makes perfect sense if your aim is a single market, takes out a chunk of transaction cost and uncertainty around exchange rates. My company is selling 10% more year on year in Japan but earning less due to the devaluation in the Yen, which is infuriating), but it's design and implementation have been incredibly cack handed. Too much too soon.

Let's be absolutely clear what would happen in the event of an exit. The first trade treaty we would negotiate is with the EU, because it is by far our biggest market. Our aim would be free access to the market, on similar grounds to what we have now. Just like Norway in fact. And if we had the same arrangement as Norway the terms would be acceptance of EU regulations and a contribution to the EU budget - it is estimated that our EU budget contribution would drop by a massive 9% compared to the current full membership cost (and, for example, we would lose the subsidies that make agriculture in Wales and Northern Ireland viable). The other thing we would lose is of course our ability to influence and shape the regulations.

Let's say we decline this kind of arrangement. Then your company's product would be subject to tariffs on export to the EU, pushing up the price. This creates an opportunity for entrepreneurs in the EU to produce the same stuff (probably not as good) and sell it cheaper. May take them some time, but your competitive position has changed hugely.


I really don't get the economic argument for Brexit at all.

The immigration argument is stronger in terms of the impact of EU immigration on UK infrastructure, but these immigrants are net contributors to our economy through tax.

Col's position of principle, not wanting to be governed from afar/cede sovereignty to others, is the one that is most understandable, though I don't agree with it personally.

Good réponse Sb, although i would say that this country worked well before the EU and may do so if it left, Who knows what will happen. We used to trade well with Australia and New Zealand (lamb) then we joined Europe and basically stitched them up. Who does the better lamb and how much does New Zealand lamb now cost?
Take another example of cheaper goods/labour. Look at Tesco v Waitress. Tesco maybe cheaper but look how people are leaving them in their droves and going elsewhere. Quality is quality and people will always trade with us. I watched that 80yrs of Pinewood studios last week and a famous director said that "we have the best crew in the world" and "Every carpenter/set builder wants to be the best". That's why all the good films come to Pinewood for specialist work.
Who's to say if we left Europe we wouldn't offer good incentives for companies to come here? A place you can trust.
For me there are too many scare mongers over us and Europe. We are the second richest country in the EU (if i remember rightly) and many countries need us as much as we need them.
Will be an interesting few months.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

WTF????? Who the hell has sanctioned that?

http://joshuabonehill.net/2015/06/24/golders-green-demonstration-were-going-to-have-an-absolute-gas/

Check this nutter out. It's next Saturday. There's obviously a counter-protest organised of some sort but supposedly it doesn't break any laws so can't be stopped. You'd think it's at least inciting racial hatred. The world is going mad.

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

An error in those circumstances is poor, bordering on unforgivable - but it's an exceptional case.

The definition of poverty in the UK brought in by Gordon Brown is household after-tax income of below 60 per cent of the national average. So its relative. And no matter how wealthy this country gets, under this definition, there will always be people in "poverty" n the UK.

There is dire poverty in the world, but I struggle to believe it is in the UK. There are so many benefit safety nets, it is simply avoidable. Among many social workers now, the test whether a child is in poverty in the UK is whether they are obese. I'm far from convinced that things are the same now as they were 80 years ago after the Great Depression, when there was true poverty and hardship in parts of the UK

LATEST FOODBANK FIGURES TOP 900,000: LIFE HAS GOT WORSE NOT BETTER FOR POOREST IN 2013/14, AND THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

• 913,138 people received three days’ emergency food from Trussell Trust foodbanks in 2013-14 compared to 346,992 in 2012-13
• Figures are ‘tip of the iceberg’ of UK food poverty says Trussell Trust Chairman
• 83% of foodbanks report ‘sanctioning’ is causing rising numbers to turn to them
• Foodbank figures trigger biggest ever faith leader intervention on UK food poverty in modern times.

Over 900,000 adults and children have received three days’ emergency food and support from Trussell Trust foodbanks in the last 12 months, a shocking 163 percent rise on numbers helped in the previous financial year. Despite signs of economic recovery, the poorest have seen incomes squeezed even more than last year reports The Trussell Trust, the UK’s largest foodbank network. More people are being referred to Trussell Trust foodbanks than ever before.

You must log in or register to see images

Static incomes, rising living costs, low pay, underemployment and problems with welfare, especially sanctioning, are significant drivers of the increased demand. 83 percent of Trussell Trust foodbanks surveyed recently [see notes below] reported that benefits sanctions, which have become increasingly harsh, have caused more people to be referred to them for emergency food. Half of referrals to foodbanks in 2013-14 were a result of benefit delays or changes.
The Trussell Trust’s Chairman, Chris Mould, says:

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

In purely simplistic terms it actually isn't!!

Fair enough, believe what you want.

But the books have to be balanced. Labour overspent to the point there was nothing left in the pot. Brown sold off gold reserves for a relatively tiny amount. Somewhere along the line this has to be made up for in some part of the economy or other.

 

[TimPR78]

There is one simple way to sort out the taxation, make bastards such as amazon actually pay some, it's ****ing criminal the way amazon, Starbucks etc.. get away with it!

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Fair enough, believe what you want.

But the books have to be balanced. Labour overspent to the point there was nothing left in the pot. Brown sold off gold reserves for a relatively tiny amount. Somewhere along the line this has to be made up for in some part of the economy or other.

If you repeat a LIE often enough does it eventually become truth?

 

[Deleted 1]

http://joshuabonehill.net/2015/06/24/golders-green-demonstration-were-going-to-have-an-absolute-gas/

Check this nutter out. It's next Saturday. There's obviously a counter-protest organised of some sort but supposedly it doesn't break any laws so can't be stopped. You'd think it's at least inciting racial hatred. The world is going mad.

Cue a few pricks (not on here - in general I mean) saying "ah but Judaism isn't a race" . I cannot for the life of me see how that doesn't break a whole rake of laws. I genuinely despair.

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

There is one simple way to sort out the taxation, make bastards such as amazon actually pay some, it's ****ing criminal the way amazon, Starbucks etc.. get away with it!

Or alternatively, just dont use them?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

If you repeat a LIE often enough does it eventually become truth?

Which lie?

 

[TimPR78]

Or alternatively, just dont use them?

I don't but not really the point as others do

 

[Stroller]

There is one simple way to sort out the taxation, make bastards such as amazon actually pay some, it's ****ing criminal the way amazon, Starbucks etc.. get away with it!

Tax them on Turnover.

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

Which lie?

This from the Spectator:

The national debt figures are out – £1.2 trillion and rising – and although I hate to say it, the Labour Party has a valid point to make. If you don’t adjust for inflation, Osborne has borrowed more in under four years than the Labour Party borrowed over 13 years. It’s unusual for Ed Balls to talk about debt accumulation as a bad thing, perhaps because his policy remains the accumulation of even more debt. But here’s the story so far:-

You must log in or register to see images

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

LATEST FOODBANK FIGURES TOP 900,000: LIFE HAS GOT WORSE NOT BETTER FOR POOREST IN 2013/14, AND THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

• 913,138 people received three days’ emergency food from Trussell Trust foodbanks in 2013-14 compared to 346,992 in 2012-13
• Figures are ‘tip of the iceberg’ of UK food poverty says Trussell Trust Chairman
• 83% of foodbanks report ‘sanctioning’ is causing rising numbers to turn to them
• Foodbank figures trigger biggest ever faith leader intervention on UK food poverty in modern times.

Over 900,000 adults and children have received three days’ emergency food and support from Trussell Trust foodbanks in the last 12 months, a shocking 163 percent rise on numbers helped in the previous financial year. Despite signs of economic recovery, the poorest have seen incomes squeezed even more than last year reports The Trussell Trust, the UK’s largest foodbank network. More people are being referred to Trussell Trust foodbanks than ever before.

You must log in or register to see images

Static incomes, rising living costs, low pay, underemployment and problems with welfare, especially sanctioning, are significant drivers of the increased demand. 83 percent of Trussell Trust foodbanks surveyed recently [see notes below] reported that benefits sanctions, which have become increasingly harsh, have caused more people to be referred to them for emergency food. Half of referrals to foodbanks in 2013-14 were a result of benefit delays or changes.
The Trussell Trust’s Chairman, Chris Mould, says:

There are some needy cases, I'm sure, but if you give free food away, people will take it. I might have done when I was a student.

I was listening to Left-Wing O'Brien's program on LBC yesterday. The example of a teacher was cited, with three children, whose rent used up all her earned income. She lived in Central London. Listeners suggested she move to a cheaper area. No, she liked the area and didn't want to move. So she and her family are in poverty and a private landlord gets richer...

 

[ELLERS]

If you repeat a LIE often enough does it eventually become truth?

I said that in another thread.

It's not good that a country as rich as us having food banks, however (and don't throw the race card at me) we have had many people come to this country in recent years and some of those use food banks as well.
I know this for a fact as by mistake a chap brought a load of food to my house one day and i thought Mr's Ellers did some on line shopping. He didn't even say anything other than "heres the food". When she got home she asked what it was? We rang them up and he collected. He said he got the road and house number mixed up. It actually belonged to a Foreign family that we known of. The thing i was gutted about was that food looked better than what the Mrs buys!

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

There are some needy cases, I'm sure, but if you give free food away, people will take it. I might have done when I was a student.

I was listening to Left-Wing O'Brien's program on LBC yesterday. The example of a teacher was cited, with three children, whose rent used up all her earned income. She lived in Central London. Listeners suggested she move to a cheaper area. No, she liked the area and didn't want to move. So she and her family are in poverty and a private landlord gets richer...

You cant just go and get it????????!!!!!!!!!!! you have to be assessed and given vouchers by, for example, your GP.

A moment ago you said you found it hard to believe there were such levels of poverty in the UK and now you say you are sure there are some needy cases?

You need to make your mind up my friend.

 

[Deleted 1]

I said that in another thread.

It's not good that a country as rich as us having food banks, however (and don't throw the race card at me) we have had many people come to this country in recent years and some of those use food banks as well.
I know this for a fact as by mistake a chap brought a load of food to my house one day and i thought Mr's Ellers did some on line shopping. He didn't even say anything other than "heres the food". When she got home she asked what it was? We rang them up and he collected. He said he got the road and house number mixed up. It actually belonged to a Foreign family that we known of. The thing i was gutted about was that food looked better than what the Mrs buys!

It' isn't great but, on the other hand, if people really do need them then I'd rather they were there than not. They've now become a political football though.

 

[Pils-the-hoop]

I said that in another thread.

It's not good that a country as rich as us having food banks, however (and don't throw the race card at me) we have had many people come to this country in recent years and some of those use food banks as well.
I know this for a fact as by mistake a chap brought a load of food to my house one day and i thought Mr's Ellers did some on line shopping. He didn't even say anything other than "heres the food". When she got home she asked what it was? We rang them up and he collected. He said he got the road and house number mixed up. It actually belonged to a Foreign family that we known of. The thing i was gutted about was that food looked better than what the Mrs buys!

I know you did my friend...................... where do you think I got it from?