Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Did the Donald just realize he hadn't ordered his new iPhone and tablet
Labour has lost sight of what nationalisation was supposed to be - what they did in the forties and fifties, nationalising critical industries and infrastructure, for the ‘good of the nation’. Of course because it was state control rather than collective ownership it was a bit of a ‘meet the new boss, same as the old boss’ and these became hugely bureaucratic enterprises which brilliantly alienated their own workers.
But the first burst made some sense, practically and for them ideologically. Since then it’s only been used for crisis management, industries and organisations that are failing taken over to fail at the taxpayers expense. Anthony Wedgewood ‘Tony’ Benn and the fabled National Enterprise Board was the zenith of this, and British Leyland their shining glory.
Expect the same for ‘British’ Steel. Starmer says taking this over is essential for national security, presumably so we can produce metal for tanks and boats for some war he expects to happen, which makes you wonder why it was allowed to be sold to the Chinese, or any foreign capitalists, in the first place. When Thames Water finally implodes in a shower of sewage and dividends I expect we’ll bail out that failing organisation too.
I’m all for the people owning the means of production (and the land, what a stupid concept land ownership is) and stuff that everyone needs - water, power, transport - is a decent place to start. But state ownership really isn’t the same thing.
The economics of this steel thing are odd too. Apparently the U.K. uses about 7 million tons of steel a year. The industry makes about 5.6 million tons, but 3.4 million are exported. So we can’t meet our own needs anyway, and to direct British production to British needs would require not only nationalisation but subsidised pricing to make this feasible. Which is a kind of tariff on imports, and the reverse of the globalised economy that Starmer is trying to defend.
Weird scenes inside the goldmine. Again.
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Starmer doesn't have an ideology, he's a pragmatist. He wants to cut NHS waiting lists, not just for the good of the nation, but also because getting people back to work will be good for the economy. With Trump's US unlikely to honour its NATO obligations, Britain - and the rest of Europe - does need to rearm, and a fully functioning British steel industry will be necessary for that. Growth through armaments.
The natural monopolies of power, water and transport should certainly not be in private hands and an old-style Labour government would have re-nationalised water on day one. How are you differentiating public ownership from state ownership?
“State” is the government. “Public” is the general public which is not the government. “State-owned company” is company that is owned by the state or the government.“Publicly owned company” is company owned by the public which are common people. But I think they have become interchangeable in the media.
Actually I would prefer ownership to be largely by the people who work in the organisation/industry, a collective or cooperative ownership, or a partnership where all employees are partners. But I’m not holding my breath.
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Not sure I get that. Maybe I'm being dumb, but isn't being owned by some of the public, rather than all of the public, the same as being privately owned?
Not really. Most companies are owned by shareholders, pension funds, venture capitalists etc who don’t actually do anything except buy the shares and trade them, usually not benefitting the company and its employees at all. A cooperative is owned and run by the people who work in it, they might have a notional share but they can’t sell it (or the shares are held in an employee ownership trust) and the shares, if they have them, aren’t traded. But they can be involved in how the company/enterprise is run, and of course they don’t have to give dividends to people who contribute nothing to the organisation. A ‘privately owned’ company is, I think one where a single family/individual/investor owns the majority of the shares and they aren’t traded.
A nationalised company is simply one where the state owns the majority, or all, of the shares.
But I’m sure you know all this.
Someone is taking the piss
Is there any loopholes being used the tax man can closse
Starbucks’s UK retail business paid no corporation tax last year
US-owned coffee chain dived to £35m loss after paying £40m in royalty and license fees to parent company
Sarah ButlerTue 15 Apr 2025 17.13 BST
Share
Starbucks’s UK retail business paid no corporation tax for last year as it dived to a £35m loss after paying £40m in royalty and licence fees to its parent company.
The US-owned coffee chain said it made the payments despite sales declining 4% to £525.6m in the year to 29 September 2024, amid what it called a “challenging economic climate” and a consumer boycott linked to the Gaza conflict.
Sales fell even though it opened 100 new British stores during the period. The previous year it had made a £16.9m pre-tax profit.
The company’s trading was hit after it was named on a list of companies to boycott for its perceived support for, investment in, or links to, Israel. It has denied having any political agenda, saying: “We do not use our profits to fund any government or military operations anywhere.”
In spite of sliding sales, Starbucks’s UK retail arm paid out just over £40m in royalty and licence fees to its parent company – a similar figure to the prior year – tipping it into loss so that it paid no corporation tax.
It did hand HM Revenue and Customs almost £1m in deferred payments and adjustments related to prior years – including £455,000 of corporation tax. That came after it was previously criticised by fair tax campaigners for paying a “derisorily low” £7.2m in UK corporation tax for 2023.
Paul Monaghan, the chief executive of the Fair Tax Foundation, described the catch-up payments as “paltry”, adding that the latest Starbucks UK accounts reflected a long history of paying little or no corporate income tax with “surpluses invariably wiped out by substantial royalty payments to other parts of the business”.
Starbucks paid just £8.6m in the first 14 years after its 1998 debut in the UK, with none paid in several consecutive years, despite £3bn worth of sales during that time.
A Starbucks spokesperson said:“Starbucks is in full compliance with tax laws around the world, with an effective global tax rate of over 24% in 2024, which is in excess of the 15% minimum corporation tax discussed by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.”
The number of transactions at Starbucks’s 1,240 UK outlets, which include 378 run directly by the company as well as hundreds operated by franchisees, fell back as it raised prices by up to 4% on its drinks, amid inflation on coffee beans, cocoa and milk. The price of a latte or cappuccino hit £4.25 in March last year, with more elaborate drinks, such as a white chocolate mocha, reaching £5.40.
This month prices have risen again, with a cappuccino now costing £4.70 and a caramel macchiato priced at £6.10.
As the company fell into the red, Starbucks’s parent company pumped £50m into its UK division last year – via a revolving credit facility and a capital injection. Late last year the parent group committed to support its UK arm further financially if necessary and extended the payback period for a £20m loan, on which it is charging its UK business more than 5% interest, until December this year.
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“Persistent inflation and higher interest rates left consumers with less disposable income, resulting in many adjusting usual spending habits; leading to a reduction in year-on-year transactions,” Starbucks said in accounts filed at Companies House this week.
“This was coupled with an increasingly competitive environment in key cities as new entrants to the market invested in new stores. Misperceptions about the brand relating to events in the Middle East also affected footfall in some locations in the first half of the year.”
The company, which was founded in Seattle in 1971 and is now the world’s biggest coffee shop operator, said there was also increasing competition for the best sites in city centres and drive-thrus, despite coffee shops coming under pressure from cost inflation and tightened consumer spending.
While Starbucks’s UK business has struggled, its cheaper rival Greggs has been rapidly expanding, while the British chain Caffè Nero increased sales globally by 15% in the year to May 2024 to almost £520m, including 10% growth in the UK. However, Caffè Nero also fell into the red, recording a £34.4m annual loss.
Starbucks has said it wants to open 80 more stores this year.
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Is there any loopholes being used the tax man can closse
Starbucks’s UK retail business paid no corporation tax last year
US-owned coffee chain dived to £35m loss after paying £40m in royalty and license fees to parent company
Sarah ButlerTue 15 Apr 2025 17.13 BST
Share
Starbucks’s UK retail business paid no corporation tax for last year as it dived to a £35m loss after paying £40m in royalty and licence fees to its parent company.
The US-owned coffee chain said it made the payments despite sales declining 4% to £525.6m in the year to 29 September 2024, amid what it called a “challenging economic climate” and a consumer boycott linked to the Gaza conflict.
Sales fell even though it opened 100 new British stores during the period. The previous year it had made a £16.9m pre-tax profit.
The company’s trading was hit after it was named on a list of companies to boycott for its perceived support for, investment in, or links to, Israel. It has denied having any political agenda, saying: “We do not use our profits to fund any government or military operations anywhere.”
In spite of sliding sales, Starbucks’s UK retail arm paid out just over £40m in royalty and licence fees to its parent company – a similar figure to the prior year – tipping it into loss so that it paid no corporation tax.
It did hand HM Revenue and Customs almost £1m in deferred payments and adjustments related to prior years – including £455,000 of corporation tax. That came after it was previously criticised by fair tax campaigners for paying a “derisorily low” £7.2m in UK corporation tax for 2023.
Paul Monaghan, the chief executive of the Fair Tax Foundation, described the catch-up payments as “paltry”, adding that the latest Starbucks UK accounts reflected a long history of paying little or no corporate income tax with “surpluses invariably wiped out by substantial royalty payments to other parts of the business”.
Starbucks paid just £8.6m in the first 14 years after its 1998 debut in the UK, with none paid in several consecutive years, despite £3bn worth of sales during that time.
A Starbucks spokesperson said:“Starbucks is in full compliance with tax laws around the world, with an effective global tax rate of over 24% in 2024, which is in excess of the 15% minimum corporation tax discussed by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.”
The number of transactions at Starbucks’s 1,240 UK outlets, which include 378 run directly by the company as well as hundreds operated by franchisees, fell back as it raised prices by up to 4% on its drinks, amid inflation on coffee beans, cocoa and milk. The price of a latte or cappuccino hit £4.25 in March last year, with more elaborate drinks, such as a white chocolate mocha, reaching £5.40.
This month prices have risen again, with a cappuccino now costing £4.70 and a caramel macchiato priced at £6.10.
As the company fell into the red, Starbucks’s parent company pumped £50m into its UK division last year – via a revolving credit facility and a capital injection. Late last year the parent group committed to support its UK arm further financially if necessary and extended the payback period for a £20m loan, on which it is charging its UK business more than 5% interest, until December this year.
skip past newsletter promotionPrivacy Policy. We use Google reCaptcha to protect our website and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
after newsletter promotion
“Persistent inflation and higher interest rates left consumers with less disposable income, resulting in many adjusting usual spending habits; leading to a reduction in year-on-year transactions,” Starbucks said in accounts filed at Companies House this week.
“This was coupled with an increasingly competitive environment in key cities as new entrants to the market invested in new stores. Misperceptions about the brand relating to events in the Middle East also affected footfall in some locations in the first half of the year.”
The company, which was founded in Seattle in 1971 and is now the world’s biggest coffee shop operator, said there was also increasing competition for the best sites in city centres and drive-thrus, despite coffee shops coming under pressure from cost inflation and tightened consumer spending.
While Starbucks’s UK business has struggled, its cheaper rival Greggs has been rapidly expanding, while the British chain Caffè Nero increased sales globally by 15% in the year to May 2024 to almost £520m, including 10% growth in the UK. However, Caffè Nero also fell into the red, recording a £34.4m annual loss.
Starbucks has said it wants to open 80 more stores this year.
Congratulations on being one of our top readers globally – you've read 123 articles in the last year
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We know, we know, we know …
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But it’s also extremely important. One of the Guardian’s greatest assets is its reader-funded model.
1. Reader funding means we can cover what we like. We’re not beholden to the political whims of a billionaire owner. No-one can tell us what not to say or what not to report.
2. Reader funding means we don’t have to chase clicks and traffic. We’re not desperately seeking your attention for its own sake: we pursue the stories that our editorial team deems important, and believe are worthy of your time.
3. Reader funding means we can keep our website open, allowing as many people as possible to read quality journalism from around the world – especially people who live in places where the free press is in peril.
Right now, the Guardian’s work is funded by just 2.4% of our regular readers. We know that not everyone can afford to pay for news but, if it would help twist your arm into supporting our work, we’d love to offer readers like you in New Zealand 30% off an annual All-access digital subscription when you checkout.
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Starbucks says people using its coffee shops must buy something
14 Jan 2025
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Strollers going to go right off you
Bloody tax avoiders
So the Supreme Court has ruled a woman is a biological woman. How many millions of pounds has been wasted by all and sundry telling us and legislating something that is so bleedin' obvious. At least Starmer will be able to answer the question now...
Now the fascists in the White House want to interfere with our own laws against hate speech....
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...b2733806.html?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-gb
Please just tell them to **** off, Suckear.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...b2733806.html?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-gb
Please just tell them to **** off, Suckear.
I’m willing to bet quite heavily that the next pope will be a man. And probably not a trans man.
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Pope Francis was a bit of a 'liberal' by all accounts. Meeting JD Vance must have finished him off.
Pope Francis's final meeting: Awkward moment with JD Vance - after condemning Trump administration's treatment of migrants - was to be pontiff's last public encounter | Daily Mail Online
My very thoughts, now he's in India to see Modi (who also doesn't wear a suit!)
All Politicians around the world are muppets taking part in a big theater event. Distracting people from what is really going on so they cannot see the big transformation taking place right now.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
Almost 80 years ago we had been warned but just would not listen.
Removing freedom of speech, deliberately destroying the Economy and talking people into a War that will only lead to more authorian measures. The latter will allow them installing more surveillance, introducing CBDC´s and a unique personal ID so that 100% of your life can be traced.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
Almost 80 years ago we had been warned but just would not listen.
Removing freedom of speech, deliberately destroying the Economy and talking people into a War that will only lead to more authorian measures. The latter will allow them installing more surveillance, introducing CBDC´s and a unique personal ID so that 100% of your life can be traced.