Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Uber_Hoop]

The average Russian may well be paranoid about NATO and the West, but that would be because they're encouraged to be so by Kremlin propaganda. NATO expansion was as a result of former Soviet states and other countries neighbouring Russia fearing invasion by Putin and seeking to join the organisation for protection. NATO is a defensive organisation and doesn't pose a military threat to Russia. When has NATO ever invaded anywhere?

Should the West have denied these countries the protection of NATO for fear of provoking Putin? This seems to be what Farage is saying.

Let’s censure Farage for what he seems to be saying then rather than what he actually said.

Russia’s paranoia about The West and the threat (that it perceives) of NATO expansion was provocative regardless of whether you, me or Stan’s burgeoning home decorating business think it ridiculous. Does that justify Putin’s aggression? Absolutely not. Did Farage suggest it excused Putin’s aggression? Absolutely not.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Anyway, who’s worried about penis cancer?

 

[Stroller]

Let’s censure Farage for what he seems to be saying then rather than what he actually said.

Russia’s paranoia about The West and the threat (that it perceives) of NATO expansion was provocative regardless of whether you, me or Stan’s burgeoning home decorating business think it ridiculous. Does that justify Putin’s aggression? Absolutely not. Did Farage suggest it excused Putin’s aggression? Absolutely not.

You really should check what I said before accusing me of putting words in Farage's mouth. Did I say that he excused Putin's aggression? Absolutely not.

Farage said 'we provoked this war'. The obvious implication is that 'we' should have rejected requests to join NATO from countries seeking protection from the threat of Russian invasion because Putin might not like it. We should have appeased Putin. What else could he mean?

 

[Steelmonkey]

Advice sought:
I am planning to have the outside of my house painted. My neighbours to the west have painted their house a lovely shade of blue and have some paint left over which they said they would give to me.

On my East there is a miserable old man who has painted his house a violent hue of orange. When we told him that we were thinking of painting our house blue he threw a massive fit, saying that we weren’t allowed to, because once upon a time, decades ago, our house was attached to his. He has a long running feud with our neighbours to the West, claiming that they are trying to undermine him. He has since annexed a chunk of our garden, saying ‘this was always mine’ and attempted to rape our dog. Every night he throws stones at our windows. He wants our house to be painted the same colour as his and to have the vast majority of our garden.

Should I:
- cave in to the Eastern neighbours demands in the hope of a quiet life; or
- assert our right to do whatever we want with our own house and be friends with whoever we like
- try and find some kind of halfway house solution, like letting him have the bit of garden he has already taken and not painting the house at all.


Thanks for your help.

Sounds a bit of a nutter...you could get the council in to mediate, but if he's as dogged as you suggest, then he probably wouldn't listen to them anyway, even if they bring in the big boys (who I assume are quite friendly with your other neighbour). He may delusional and he believes all of your house actually belongs to him - I'd be careful he may try to move in sometime soon, watch out if he starts amassing gnomes on the border between your gardens

 

[Uber_Hoop]

You really should check what I said before accusing me of putting words in Farage's mouth. Did I say that he excused Putin's aggression? Absolutely not.

Farage said 'we provoked this war'. The obvious implication is that 'we' should have rejected requests to join NATO from countries seeking protection from the threat of Russian invasion because Putin might not like it. We should have appeased Putin. What else could he mean?

How amusing. Outraged that I accuse you of putting words into Farage’s mouth and then tell us all the “obvious implication” of what he said. We haven’t even touched on the Euromaidan revolution that saw the Moscow-leaning Yanukovych overthrown and the pro-West Zelenskyy replace him.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

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[Stroller]

How amusing. Outraged that I accuse you of putting words into Farage’s mouth and then tell us all the “obvious implication” of what he said.

It is an obvious implication. Please tell us all what you think he actually meant then?

We haven’t even touched on the Euromaidan revolution that saw the Moscow-leaning Yanukovych overthrown and the pro-West Zelenskyy replace him.

Ah, I see, 'we' did that then, did we? If that's what Farage meant, which I seriously doubt, he should have made it a bit clearer, don't you think?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

It is an obvious implication. Please tell us all what you think he actually meant then?



Ah, I see, 'we' did that then, did we? If that's what Farage meant, which I seriously doubt, he should have made it a bit clearer, don't you think?

I’m not a mind reader like you, Strolls, so cannot say for sure what he meant. If you saw the interview with Robinson you’d have seen that it was but a brief exchange that wasn’t explored in any detail.

There have been many commentators that have expressed similar views and how Russian paranoia may have been stoked by NATO or EU expansion, as well as the suggestion that Euromaidan may well have been encouraged by the CIA.

I can at least see how this may have contributed to the Ukraine War. After all, Putin ultimately annexed Crimea as a direct consequence of Euromaidan.

None of this is excusing Putin’s aggression whatsoever, but I at least accept the possibility that the last c. 10 years of Ukrainian history may have provoked Russia.

And, in reverse, Putin’s aggression has led to Finland joining NATO and expanding NATO’s border with Russia by over 800 miles. So it goes on.

It’s from sequences like this that world wars start, which is why I posted the Blackadder clip. Personally, I’m quite worried about this stuff.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Strolls, here’s one of your own (George Robertson) expressing the view that EU expansion may have contributed to what Gary Lineker might describe as the “Ukrainian thing” and that, in his opinion, Putin was less bothered about NATO.

https://www.newstatesman.com/encounter/2024/05/george-robertson-nato-why-russia-fears-european-union

 

[bobmid]

Advice sought:
I am planning to have the outside of my house painted. My neighbours to the west have painted their house a lovely shade of blue and have some paint left over which they said they would give to me.

On my East there is a miserable old man who has painted his house a violent hue of orange. When we told him that we were thinking of painting our house blue he threw a massive fit, saying that we weren’t allowed to, because once upon a time, decades ago, our house was attached to his. He has a long running feud with our neighbours to the West, claiming that they are trying to undermine him. He has since annexed a chunk of our garden, saying ‘this was always mine’ and attempted to rape our dog. Every night he throws stones at our windows. He wants our house to be painted the same colour as his and to have the vast majority of our garden.

Should I:
- cave in to the Eastern neighbours demands in the hope of a quiet life; or
- assert our right to do whatever we want with our own house and be friends with whoever we like
- try and find some kind of halfway house solution, like letting him have the bit of garden he has already taken and not painting the house at all.


Thanks for your help.

Move

 

[Stroller]

Strolls, here’s one of your own (George Robertson) expressing the view that EU expansion may have contributed to what Gary Lineker might describe as the “Ukrainian thing” and that, in his opinion, Putin was less bothered about NATO.
https://www.newstatesman.com/encounter/2024/05/george-robertson-nato-why-russia-fears-european-union
https://www.newstatesman.com/encounter/2024/05/george-robertson-nato-why-russia-fears-european-union

Yeah, that's interesting. It seems Robinson didn't press Farage to explain his 'we provoked this war' comment, which is a bit of a dereliction of duty. Let's hope that other journalists will do that for him.

I did see this clip, where he blames the failure of Brexit on net zero .....

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[Goldhawk-Road]

I did see this clip, where he blames the failure of Brexit on net zero .....

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Wrong end of the stick again.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Yeah, that's interesting. It seems Robinson didn't press Farage to explain his 'we provoked this war' comment, which is a bit of a dereliction of duty. Let's hope that other journalists will do that for him.

I did see this clip, where he blames the failure of Brexit on net zero .....

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I suggest you watch it again because he didn’t say that. He blamed net zero on the decline of our manufacturing base. There may be a net zero factor, but I’d suggest manufacturing has been in steady decline in this country for at least 50 years as businesses have moved facilities to China, Mexico and other cheaper territories.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Why do these idiots use terms like “absolutely DESTROYED” when it was nothing like? Bit embarrassing that.

 

[Stroller]

I suggest you watch it again because he didn’t say that. He blamed net zero on the decline of our manufacturing base. There may be a net zero factor, but I’d suggest manufacturing has been in steady decline in this country for at least 50 years as businesses have moved facilities to China, Mexico and other cheaper territories.

He was asked to explain how Brexit had failed. Blaming the decline of our manufacturing base (which as you say has been happening for decades anyway) on net zero is bizarre way to do that.

 

[Stroller]

Why do these idiots use terms like “absolutely DESTROYED” when it was nothing like? Bit embarrassing that.

It was a bit embarrassing for Farage, I thought.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

He was asked to explain how Brexit had failed. Blaming the decline of our manufacturing base (which as you say has been happening for decades anyway) on net zero is bizarre way to do that.

Not going to have the Brexit argument for the umpteenth time, but he said we’d risen in the export league table post-Brexit, but that this has been due to services rather than tangible products.

I’d be interested, however, in whether our domestic net zero policies adversely affect the pricing of UK-manufactured products and make them less competitive on the world stage. I have no idea on this.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I suggest you watch it again because he didn’t say that. He blamed net zero on the decline of our manufacturing base. There may be a net zero factor, but I’d suggest manufacturing has been in steady decline in this country for at least 50 years as businesses have moved facilities to China, Mexico and other cheaper territories.

Services, which represent 80% of our GDP, are flourishing under Brexit.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

It was a bit embarrassing for Farage, I thought.

I don’t think he’s capable of embarrassment.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

https://x.com/actionbrexit/status/1804421882336166213?s=46&t=IY6M0zI1h1T3HNaXabWIhQ