Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Goldhawk-Road]

You can blame Labour for many things but not for the Tories actively moving to the right to present themselves as an option for the far right. Tommy Robinson and his ilk wouldn’t be publicly supporting a vaguely centrist government.

It’s an effective means of winning votes as a lot of people in this country are at least sympathetic to the far right but Tories have to own it as what was once just a laughable faction is now a significant part of them. Fine if you want vote Tory to save yourself a few quid or because you didn’t like Corbyn but you can’t then pretend you aren’t endorsing the most vulgar people in society.

Large numbers of past Labour supporters voted against the most hateful people in society, the antisemite extremists in Corbyn's Labour. Many, many Jewish people across the country have breathed a sigh of relief that these people didn't gain power - and the fact that you're Jewish, Watford, and could live with it, doesn't change that.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Large numbers of past Labour supporters voted against the most hateful people in society, the antisemite extremists in Corbyn's Labour. Many, many Jewish people across the country have breathed a sigh of relief that these people didn't gain power - and the fact that you're Jewish, Watford, and could live with it, doesn't change that.

Many Jewish people, like many people, see a headline and get their news from a small number of sources with a clear agenda. There are some atrocious people associated with the Labour Party and if they’d won I’d have had to live with the regret of giving those people power but Corbyn himself was nowhere near the character the (unashamedly right wing) Jewish Chronicle painted him out to be nor the bulk of the national media. Johnson’s own anti-semitism was totally ignored in comparison, let alone his disgraceful comments about Muslims and his manifesto on travellers.

The only positive for Jews from a Tory win is the rhetoric against other groups takes the heat off us a bit but it doesn’t give me any joy that Muslims are the new Jews in the eyes of the far right.

Terry from Workington couldn’t give a **** about Jews.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Many Jewish people, like many people, see a headline and get their news from a small number of sources with a clear agenda. There are some atrocious people associated with the Labour Party and if they’d won I’d have had to live with the regret of giving those people power but Corbyn himself was nowhere near the character the (unashamedly right wing) Jewish Chronicle painted him out to be nor the bulk of the national media. Johnson’s own anti-semitism was totally ignored in comparison, let alone his disgraceful comments about Muslims and his manifesto on travellers.

The only positive for Jews from a Tory win is the rhetoric against other groups takes the heat off us a bit but it doesn’t give me any joy that Muslims are the new Jews in the eyes of the far right.

Terry from Workington couldn’t give a **** about Jews.

I think we can agree there are atrocious people at the extremes of Labour and the Tories. As to Corbyn, he could have done a great deal more to rid his party of the antisemites and chose not to. As a result, there is now an investigation of Labour by the EHRC. The only other party investigated in this way is the BNP, so it's pretty shameful and the buck stops with Corbyn.

You support staying in the EU. France is one of the major members, and has banned burkas. Yet you reserve all your criticism for Boris Johnson who would not ban that apparel but believes the custom of women permanently covering their faces in public is ridiculous. I'm surprised you aren't protesting outside the French Embassy.

I'm fully supportive of the Tories' plan to create an offence of criminal trespass which would allow anyone setting up illegal camps to be arrested rather than leaving landowners to take civil action through the courts. And if those illegal campers leave that site like a fly tip, they need to feel the full force of the law. No one should be above the law.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I think we can agree there are atrocious people at the extremes of Labour and the Tories. As to Corbyn, he could have done a great deal more to rid his party of the antisemites and chose not to. As a result, there is now an investigation of Labour by the EHRC. The only other party investigated in this way is the BNP, so it's pretty shameful and the buck stops with Corbyn.

You support staying in the EU. France is one of the major members, and has banned burkas. Yet you reserve all your criticism for Boris Johnson who would not ban that apparel but believes the custom of women permanently covering their faces in public is ridiculous. I'm surprised you aren't protesting outside the French Embassy.

I'm fully supportive of the Tories' plan to create an offence of criminal trespass which would allow anyone setting up illegal camps to be arrested rather than leaving landowners to take civil action through the courts. And if those illegal campers leave that site like a fly tip, they need to feel the full force of the law. No one should be above the law.

I can see arguments for and against the burkha. I’d just about err on the side of not banning it if I had to vote on it. I can’t see the arguments for dog whistling for the benefit of islamophobes and xenophobes.

I’ve not seen one quote of Corbyn himself that would make an anti-Semite want to join Labour. I’ve seen plenty of Johnson that would make an islamophobe join the Tories, as they are doing right now.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I can see arguments for and against the burkha. I’d just about err on the side of not banning it if I had to vote on it. I can’t see the arguments for dog whistling for the benefit of islamophobes and xenophobes.

I’ve not seen one quote of Corbyn himself that would make an anti-Semite want to join Labour. I’ve seen plenty of Johnson that would make an islamophobe join the Tories, as they are doing right now.

I don't think I would ban the burka either. What Johnson, as an ex journalist, was doing was ridiculing that piece of clothing. The mistake he made was not to realise that as a senior politician, it was inadvisable, and he should have left it to other journalists to do (quite justifiably imo).

Corbyn's crime was omission more than commission. He knew a cancer was growing and looked the other way. When forced to confront it, he had a tame lawyer carry out a biased and much criticised whitewash report (and then made her a Baroness).

Johnson is a foot in the mouth merchant who hopefully has learned from his loose language. Corbyn is much more sinister imo, and this seems to be a generally accepted view, even among previous Labour supporters and MP's.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I don't think I would ban the burka either. What Johnson, as an ex journalist, was doing was ridiculing that piece of clothing. The mistake he made was not to realise that as a senior politician, it was inadvisable, and he should have left it to other journalists to do (quite justifiably imo).

Corbyn's crime was omission more than commission. He knew a cancer was growing and looked the other way. When forced to confront it, he had a tame lawyer carry out a biased and much criticised whitewash report (and then made her a Baroness).

Johnson is a foot in the mouth merchant who hopefully has learned from his loose language. Corbyn is much more sinister imo, and this seems to be a generally accepted view, even among previous Labour supporters and MP's.

The only thing he’s learned from his loose language is that it’s what his support wants to hear. Whether as a journalist or a politician.

The sad reality is that most people will form a view of them both from a small snippet of news as most people don’t care enough to go beyond that nor should they need to. In the current environment it’s impossible to get a fair comparison of the two men from that.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The only thing he’s learned from his loose language is that it’s what his support wants to hear. Whether as a journalist or a politician.

The sad reality is that most people will form a view of them both from a small snippet of news as most people don’t care enough to go beyond that nor should they need to. In the current environment it’s impossible to get a fair comparison of the two men from that.

Most people read newspapers that support their general political approach.There are other ways to form opinions, tv, radio etc. So far as Corbyn is concerned, I should think his own MP's that have left the party complaining about the way he runs the organisation, would count for a lot with voters. Of course there are some voters that don't follow politics at all, but there's been hugely more interest as a result of the 2016 referendum, which is a good thing. People form their opinion by their instinct based on this plethora of sources, and mostly, have found against Corbyn

 

[rangercol]

I think the worrying thing should be that she and her like see Johnson's Tory party as being one that speaks for them.

That's only because both support brexit.
Johnson is liberal and has put together the most diverse cabinet ever.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

That's only because both support brexit.
Johnson is liberal and has put together the most diverse cabinet ever.

I think it goes a bit deeper than just Brexit, Col. You’re in denial if you genuinely think that.

 

[rangercol]

I think it goes a bit deeper than just Brexit, Col. You’re in denial if you genuinely think that.

The far right may think that this government is far right because of brexit initially and presume they share other values.
I honestly don't believe this. There may be pockets of further right thinkers, but the size of the majority renders them ineffective in my opinion.
If I'm proved wrong I'll be the first to say so and I certainly won't vote for them.
I'm encouraged by the early signs, but it's obviously very early days.
Time will tell.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

The far right may think that this government is far right because of brexit initially and presume they share other values.
I honestly don't believe this. There may be pockets of further right thinkers, but the size of the majority renders them ineffective in my opinion.
If I'm proved wrong I'll be the first to say so and I certainly won't vote for them.
I'm encouraged by the early signs, but it's obviously very early days.
Time will tell.

His comments just before the election about EU migrants treating this country like their own weren’t very liberal.

 

[rangercol]

His comments just before the election about EU migrants treating this country like their own weren’t very liberal.

Was he refering to illegal immigrants?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Was he refering to illegal immigrants?

No. He was talking about EU citizens.

 

[rangercol]

No. He was talking about EU citizens.

Mmm, didn't see that.
Got a link to ascertain context etc?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Mmm, didn't see that.
Got a link to ascertain context etc?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ants-apology-eu-citizens-brexit-a9242121.html

Ascertain away.

 

[rangercol]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ants-apology-eu-citizens-brexit-a9242121.html

Ascertain away.

Most of that article is the opinions of the left leaning publication that it's in and the people writing the petition.
Basically he's saying there's been too much immigration and has been unchecked.
I'm sure he was looking for votes with anything and everything he said leading up to the election, just like all of them.
I'll judge him on post election stuff.
We'll never agree on him or the Tories, which is fine.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Stroller]

Large numbers of past Labour supporters voted against the most hateful people in society, the antisemite extremists in Corbyn's Labour. Many, many Jewish people across the country have breathed a sigh of relief that these people didn't gain power - and the fact that you're Jewish, Watford, and could live with it, doesn't change that.

The hypocrisy demonstrated by Tories who splutter with righteous outrage at racism from elements of the Labour party is breathtaking. The Tory party has been the natural home for racists and bigots for decades and its current leader is well known for his own racist comments and attitudes, hence his attractiveness to the far right.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Most of that article is the opinions of the left leaning publication that it's in and the people writing the petition.
Basically he's saying there's been too much immigration and has been unchecked.
I'm sure he was looking for votes with anything and everything he said leading up to the election, just like all of them.
I'll judge him on post election stuff.
We'll never agree on him or the Tories, which is fine.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

It’s just one of many reports on those comments. I’m honestly surprised you missed the story at the time.

 

[rangercol]

It’s just one of many reports on those comments. I’m honestly surprised you missed the story at the time.

My memory isn't what it was.

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

The hypocrisy demonstrated by Tories who splutter with righteous outrage at racism from elements of the Labour party is breathtaking. The Tory party has been the natural home for racists and bigots for decades and its current leader is well known for his own racist comments and attitudes, hence his attractiveness to the far right.

How has the Tory party been the natural home for racists and bigots for decades, Boris doesn’t make racist comments he makes stupid ones, secondly how is this attracting the far right.
Just because I voted leave and just because I believe in controlled immigration like Australia and Canada, how does this make me a racist bigot.
Just because I have swung my allegiance from Labour to conservative over Tony B.Liar and Gordon Browns recklessness and borrowing billions to take us into 2 illegal wars, how does this make me a racist bigot.
In all honesty Stroller I find that post a little offensive as by association you believe I’m a racist and a bigot and that my friend is as far from the truth as is possible to be.
My step daughter of over 25 years is married to a Turkish Muslim, we have 5 grand daughters all Muslims, I lived in Turkey for over 2 years, I go over as often as I can, My best man at my wedding over 25 years ago is my best friend, a Black man of Jamaican descent, I have many friends from many ethnic backgrounds , but by your definition because I voted Conservative, I’m a racist and bigot.
I would have expected better from the educated and honest man that you clearly are, please don’t let your disdain and hatred of the Tories manifest itself into a hatred of the people that vote for them.