Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Goldhawk-Road said:
Did you see the picture of that dinner, after the deal negotiations were concluded? They were lining up to pat him on the back! The relationship between EU leaders is a lot better with Boris, than it ever was with May.

Boris as a figurehead is quite reasonable, I think. Where he fails is in preparation, at times - like last night, when he had to read out his opening speech. But if he's just the figurehead and has competent people behind him, it would work imo
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Sorry Goldy but as an outsider I beg to differ. I know that won't come as a surprise to you.

I think Theresa May was widely seen as been an honest, decent woman who was swimming against the tide in a divided party. Some of the people who stabbed her in the back, David Davies and Dominic Raab in particular were the very ones who negotiated her deal and then resigned because they disagreed with what they themselves had negotiated. May had the total respect of the EU leaders. She worked tirelessly.

Honest and decent are not two words anybody would use to describe the current occupant in number 10. Before he got the job, he was widely seen as a lying, complete clown who nobody could take serious and nobody could trust. His reputation goes before him I'm afraid. The EU leaders may be civil to him in face to face dealings as obviously they respect his office but a bit like Trump, nobody has any respect for him on a personal level. That's my take on how he is seen throughout Europe. Even his Brother resigned his position in his government. Not many have achieved that accolade.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
He won over the EU leaders once they knew he wanted to avoid a no deal, and settled on deal. Understandably, they want to move on and are beginning to see him as a way forward. They don't want to renegotiate a totally new deal with Corbyn and find it's rejected by Parliament or the people at Corbyn's second referendum.
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I think Corbyn would be able to agree a deal with the EU quickly and simply, if we accept to remain withhin the single market.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Any impact assessment would most likely be wrong. Economic forecasting is notoriously unreliable. It wasn't long ago that financial experts were recommending we join the euro. Boris's deal represents a satisfactory platform on which we build thereafter, by agreeing a free trade with the EU and putting in similar arrangements with other countries around the world
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Who say's you will be getting a free trade agreement?[/QUOTE]
 
finglasqpr said:
Sorry Goldy but as an outsider I beg to differ. I know that won't come as a surprise to you.

I think Theresa May was widely seen as been an honest, decent woman who was swimming against the tide in a divided party. Some of the people who stabbed her in the back, David Davies and Dominic Raab in particular were the very ones who negotiated her deal and then resigned because they disagreed with what they themselves had negotiated. May had the total respect of the EU leaders. She worked tirelessly.

Honest and decent are not two words anybody would use to describe the current occupant in number 10. Before he got the job, he was widely seen as a lying, complete clown who nobody could take serious and nobody could trust. His reputation goes before him I'm afraid. The EU leaders may be civil to him in face to face dealings as obviously they respect his office but a bit like Trump, nobody has any respect for him on a personal level. That's my take on how he is seen throughout Europe. Even his Brother resigned his position in his government. Not many have achieved that accolade.
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You are perfectly entitled to your view, Fing, and you express it well. I remember see May ostracised by the other leaders. They did feel sorry for her towards to end. Pity is not a good look. You have an Irish perspective, and I can understand therefore, why May's deal with the backstop appealed to you. But if was far too restrictive from the point of view of future British trade deals. It was just never going to run and May was naive to think it would.

I agree that Boris was initially seen as a clown - that picture of him hanging on the zip wires did the rounds throughout Europe. But there's no doubt there has been a change of heart, because the EU desperately want the deal done (not least because they want the money), and Boris has said he can deliver his new deal. The EU see him as their best hope of moving on.

Boris is not stupid and has the one to one personal charisma to win over the hardest heart - but he is lazy, likes to wing things and needs a good team behind him.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
You are perfectly entitled to your view, Fing, and you express it well. I remember see May ostracised by the other leaders. They did feel sorry for her towards to end. Pity is not a good look. You have an Irish perspective, and I can understand therefore, why May's deal with the backstop appealed to you. But if was far too restrictive from the point of view of future British trade deals. It was just never going to run and May was naive to think it would.

I agree that Boris was initially seen as a clown - that picture of him hanging on the zip wires did the rounds throughout Europe. But there's no doubt there has been a change of heart, because the EU desperately want the deal done (not least because they want the money), and Boris has said he can deliver his new deal. The EU see him as their best hope of moving on.

Boris is not stupid and has the one to one personal charisma to win over the hardest heart - but he is lazy, likes to wing things and needs a good team behind him.
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Listen, I'm not talking from an Irish point of view. I'm talking from a European point of view. Yes, the EU want a deal but not a deal at all costs. They have made that plainly clear. Boris was and is still seen as a clown throughout the EU. The people in the EU 27 want Brexit completed asap just like the good people over there want it sorted too. What money do "they want". You mean the 39 billion that is legally payable as per your obligations?
 
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Nothing is certain, but if there is not, we're back to no deal. From what I've seen of the EU, they are very anxious to avoid that, particularly given the Eurozone's parlous financial state[/QUOTE]


Typical Brexiteer response. The eurozone has reasonable growth overall this past 2-3 years compared to the UK. Worry about your own stalling economy. The withdrawal agreement comes first. The choice is, agree that and move on to the future relationship including a possible trade agreement or agree to leave with no deal. If you leave with no deal and do not adhere to your financial responsibilities, there will be no trade agreement and the UK will be seen as a pariah state who do not pay their debts.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
The reason Boris took his deal off the table and called a GE is that he had no control in a zombie parliament and the opposition parties were waiting to try to insert membership of the customs union and single market into it, which was not acceptable.

What incidents of Boris's serious incompetence are you thinking of?
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Are you serious Goldy?

This is the man who came to power in a blaze of glory and promised he would rather be found dead in a ditch than ask for an extension to brexit. Anybody found Boris in a ditch yet? There is an example of his complete incompetence right there.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
The reason Boris took his deal off the table and called a GE is that he had no control in a zombie parliament and the opposition parties were waiting to try to insert membership of the customs union and single market into it, which was not acceptable.

What incidents of Boris's serious incompetence are you thinking of?
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Ok where to start

There was that woman in Iran who was being detained, and Boris incorrectly said she was she was training journalists in the area, he was foreign secretary at the time!

Suggested money going towards historic child abuse cases was being 'spaffed up the wall'

Insulted the whole nation of Papa New Guinea with cannibalism comment

Johnson said of Obama that he was part Kenyan and had a historic dislike of the UK

Last night straight out lied about the amount of hospitals

Claimed drunk Liverpool supporters were partly to blame for Hillsborough

He was sacked for making up a quote posted on the front page on the Times

Sacked again for lying about an affair

Threatened to attack a journalist for investigating one of his Eaton buddies

Well we know about all the straight out bigoted and ignorant comments he has made while in a job as a public figure. If most of us said those whilst representing our companies, the sack would follow.

Lied about 350 mill a week to the NHS

Said that Turkey was joining the EU, then lied about that

He broke rules in relation to financial interests 3 times in a year

Waxed 43 mill on the bridge across the Thames .... that never happened because it was a totally **** idea

Waxed 300+mill on illegal water cannons

Called homosexuals tank-topped bum boys, again whilst being a public figure

Said a Libyan city had a bright future after they cleared away the dead bodies, not exactly statesmen like

Dodged questions about cocaine use.. wonder why

I could go on the list in enormous, sometimes he was sacked, the rest he should have been
 
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Willhoops said:
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Oh, oh dear looks like Boris has a big problem, he must take some of the blame here
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I have not seen this but if true at least he acted quickly. If it was Corbyn he would have promoted him and flooded social media message boards with deniers.
 
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finglasqpr said:

Are you serious Goldy?

This is the man who came to power in a blaze of glory and promised he would rather be found dead in a ditch than ask for an extension to brexit. Anybody found Boris in a ditch yet? There is an example of his complete incompetence right there.
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I doubt the British electorate see that as incompetence, which is why Boris is flying in the polls. It was a statement of intent that he wanted to get the UK out, but with a zombie parliament, the opposition kept preventing it happening. We'll see what Parliament looks like after December 12. I hope there's enough Brexit support on both sides of the House of Commons to get the deal through
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
I doubt the British electorate see that as incompetence, which is why Boris is flying in the polls. It was a statement of intent that he wanted to get the UK out, but with a zombie parliament, the opposition kept preventing it happening. We'll see what Parliament looks like after December 12. I hope there's enough Brexit support on both sides of the House of Commons to get the deal through
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I respect your position Goldy, I dont agree with it but I respect it. It's a lot easier debating with you than the slippery Eel. I'm personally hoping labour win, I dont think they will, so i can only hope for a hung parliment. Not ideal but it might least enable us to scrutinise this deal, as after all, it's our future!
 
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