There is also a group (represented by the Brexit party and the far right of the Tory party) that won't accept any deal with the EU and insist on leaving without one.
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There is also a group (represented by the Brexit party and the far right of the Tory party) that won't accept any deal with the EU and insist on leaving without one.
I reckon it's even more fragmented than that, which is the problem in a nutshell.
Think you can further seperate those groups Uber.
The staunch remainers (who seem to have the loudest voice at the moment) who refuse to accept the referendum at all, and want to abandon the whole thing.
Remainers who believe the referendum was carried out full of lies and propoganda (from both camps) and wish to hold a second referendum.
Remainers who accept the result of the referendum, who want to leave on as good a deal as possible, but won't countenance a No Deal scenario. I'm in this camp, and agree with you that a Norway style option would a) probably get through parliament and b) appease the silent majority of both Leave and Remain.
Leavers who still want to leave, don't want another referendum, but also are worried about the consequences of a No Deal, and are willing to include the Remain voting publics feelings on the matter.
Leavers who won't accept anything except a break from the EU, be that with or without a deal, and are unwilling to compromise.
Leavers who only want a No Deal, WTO and to hell with the rest of us.
This impasse has to be broken somehow, by someone, and manage to get sonething through Parliament. What are the "No Dealers" problems with either the Norway or Canada options? Even Farage touted that as an option in the lead up to the vote, although he is now demanding a full breakaway. I understand they want away from the Single Market and Customs Union, but this would solve the issue of Northern Ireland in one fell swoop, which seems to be the major stumbling block. It would, as I've said before, also keep the Union together instead of handing seperation to all the Nationalist parties.
Quite... but largely subsets of my ‘broad’ three?
I’m most interested to know if there are any among us that voted Leave that have either changed their mind entirely or would only leave with a deal.
It is clear that there are intransigent Remainers that both dismiss the legitimacy of the Referendum and/or argue that the national mood has swung in favour of Remain now, so let’s call the whole thing off.
it is also clear that there are those that voted Remain that admirably put democracy ahead of their own preference. There are some that are also now pro-Leave such is there distaste for the machinations of Parliament etc. - another made himself known to me yesterday... and he gave me a hard time for voting Leave at the time.
Lads just a reminder that this is a self moderating thread so with feelings run high after yesterday court ruling please remember to keep posts respectful.....do not resort to personal attacks on other posters just because they happen to have a different opinion....
As the old saying goes "an opinion is like an ass hole.....everyone's got one"
Cheers
As the old saying goes "an opinion is like an ass hole.....everyone's got one"
Cheers
Uber I am a remainer, I still want to remain. However I have respected the rule of democracy, until the arrival of Boris.
Before that I was, "Well it is not what I want, I do not think it will be beneficial, but we have to do it. So lets get on with it".
Throughout the process I grew to understand quite how bad it could be with problems on the Irish border, no real trade deals, problems with supply chains, especially medicine, lack of work force in service and supply industries and NHS especially...this was never mentioned on the side of a bus.
I now think we can never go back. It would be lovely to say..."ooops I woke up in the shower, it was an awful mistake...lets just go back to where we are". It cannot and won't happen. We have to leave, lets try and do it with grace.
What I am taking out of this is a lasting hatred of Cameron, many many members of the Tory party, a hatred beyond belief for Boris, who is one of the most self-serving absolute B@@@@@ as is JRMogg and his b@@@@@ hedge-fund betting company.
I take out of the whole affair a grudging respect for Kenneth Clarke and Patten , who voted 3 times for Mays deal and then stood firmly against Boris' coup. My hope is for a short-term government of national unity (lead by Clark and Starmer), to take us out of Europe, with as much grace and safety as we can muster and then a general election that is won by a true Socialist government that can start working for the people, without the austerity that has forced 14 million people onto the breadline, that has ruined the infrastructure of our rail, mail and water networks. That can re-establish our NHS, and not sell it off to America.
That is my dream....but still hope I wake and find Bobby alive in the shower and that Cameron never called that stupid referendum...
Before that I was, "Well it is not what I want, I do not think it will be beneficial, but we have to do it. So lets get on with it".
Throughout the process I grew to understand quite how bad it could be with problems on the Irish border, no real trade deals, problems with supply chains, especially medicine, lack of work force in service and supply industries and NHS especially...this was never mentioned on the side of a bus.
I now think we can never go back. It would be lovely to say..."ooops I woke up in the shower, it was an awful mistake...lets just go back to where we are". It cannot and won't happen. We have to leave, lets try and do it with grace.
What I am taking out of this is a lasting hatred of Cameron, many many members of the Tory party, a hatred beyond belief for Boris, who is one of the most self-serving absolute B@@@@@ as is JRMogg and his b@@@@@ hedge-fund betting company.
I take out of the whole affair a grudging respect for Kenneth Clarke and Patten , who voted 3 times for Mays deal and then stood firmly against Boris' coup. My hope is for a short-term government of national unity (lead by Clark and Starmer), to take us out of Europe, with as much grace and safety as we can muster and then a general election that is won by a true Socialist government that can start working for the people, without the austerity that has forced 14 million people onto the breadline, that has ruined the infrastructure of our rail, mail and water networks. That can re-establish our NHS, and not sell it off to America.
That is my dream....but still hope I wake and find Bobby alive in the shower and that Cameron never called that stupid referendum...
This country is ****ed. 3 people have been killed in the most brutal and violent way in the last 2 days, in a relatively small part of West London and all we can talk about is a load of politicians of BOTH sides of the Brexit debate doing their best to **** the country up and not giving a **** about normal everyday people.
I only wish I had some answers
Sorry to rant but it’s been a ****ing long night.
Guy Fawkes had the answer, just saying...
A true socialist government? I wonder what that is exactly?
I’d be absolutely on board with the idea that the critical utility & transport services should be run by the government for the people, but I can’t see how this could either work, or how a socialist government wouldn’t then find itself at the mercy of the union movement. I fear a return to the misery of the 70s.
The good news is that I’ll be dead soon.
True socialist government. Is that Marxist, Beth? Would it be based on the Venezuela model? Cuban? (I've never heard of anyone trying to escape America to get to Cuba). China?
Is there a European example of socialism you favour? Most if not all are market economies
No, wrong Bob the Tories agreed how to leave they just couldn’t implement it, I too have a disabled wife and its a fact that liebour introduced the policies on benefit capping and it was them that gave ATOS the 10 year 100 million pound contract to implement it.
And why couldn't they implement it? Because they couldn't agree! You have the loony ERG to contend with.
I am actually shocked that you're a Tory and have a disabled family member. Truly shocked! Look what austerity and the tories have done to the disabled! Sweet baby jesus of Nazareth. My sympathy for you has evaporated! As for the benefits cap, this was the coalition if I'm not mistaken. Under the tories we had our monthly income reduced by over £450 due to a retired dentist asking my wife who has MS and Lupus if she could answer a phone or pick a coin up from the floor! Now the labour policy was also flawed in the way that it didnt check thoroughly but that could have been easily rectified with confirmed diagnosis.
He's another odious pompous part of this government. He should have apologised and resigned.
Of course he should. It's like kwik fit advising you to buy a flat tyre!
Where have I admitted that Boris lied to the queen, he said he prorogued Parliament to allow the queen to introduce new legislation, you remainers and anti democratic folk said he didn’t.
You lot said he lied,I didn’t, I said ,if you read it again that Remain bought a spurious case to court to prevent what they thought he was doing, and no matter what you say you will not convince me otherwise.
Remain made it about leaving without a deal, maybe remain lied to the judges because they are so desperate to stay with their snouts in the trough they’ll use every underhand and devious ploy they can.
Labour can get rid of them all by calling a GE
There you go turkish! Yet boris said it was about the queens speech? Cant really help you any more if you struggle to understand. Bless ya