If the police had any sense, they'd video violence against them, themselves. Public opinion is a better weapon than a truncheon
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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If the police had any sense, they'd video violence against them, themselves. Public opinion is a better weapon than a truncheon
That doesn't take into account very low turnout in Brexit strongholds like Sunderland. After all, they voted in 2016 and won the vote. They may or may not come out to vote again if there's a bad loser's referendum
Read again what I wrote.
I'm not claiming victory for either remain or leave.
Nothing has changed.
However, if remain had won with 52% originally, you and others would have been vociferous in your opposition to a 2nd vote.
We should leave and deal with the consequences, good or bad.
Anyway, here we go again, going around in circles.
Grasp at as many straws as you like, nothing has changed.
Remain lost.
. . . and yet the Labour strongholds in the North have overwhelmingly voted to leave. I don't agree with the vote has swung to the Remain camp. I believe this country is in a state of limbo and it's going to take a politician of Churchillian stature to get us out of this impasse. We don't have one
With the announce job losses in Sunderland since the Brexit vote, perhaps there aren't quite as many voting for Brexit now.
One other point I'd like to make before enjoying the rest of the bank holiday.
Last night, Thornburry was told that a 2nd referendum with "no deal", "soft deal" and "remain" would split the leave vote.
She just sat there, silent (for once) with a fat smug grin on her mush.
This is what infuriates me about the calls for a 2nd vote, apart from it being undemocratic. The question would be slewed by the establishment to split the leave vote.
Such is the religious devotion to the EU by many remainers, they'll do anything to stop brexit.
Round and round we go!
Last night, Thornburry was told that a 2nd referendum with "no deal", "soft deal" and "remain" would split the leave vote.
She just sat there, silent (for once) with a fat smug grin on her mush.
This is what infuriates me about the calls for a 2nd vote, apart from it being undemocratic. The question would be slewed by the establishment to split the leave vote.
Such is the religious devotion to the EU by many remainers, they'll do anything to stop brexit.
Round and round we go!
If there were to be three options, it would have to be on a transferable vote basis, so no 'splitting' of the Leave vote. However, given that the Tories are incapable of coming up with a workable deal and all the viable leadership candidates will be advocating No Deal, it should just be No Deal v No Brexit.
We’ve had that one. If we have a second referendum it can only be no deal v a (described and agreed with EU) deal, ie a vote on the terms of leaving.
Biggest rises across Europe were for Liberals and Greens, with Nationalists behind them. As here conservatives and old style democratic socialists do worse.
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We haven't had that one, though. No one was campaigning for No Deal in 2016..
What kind of argument is that?
Would you have demanded a 2nd vote had remain won, yes or no?
We've had that one.
Sadly, had it been 52-48 in favour of remaining that would have been that. Cameron would have said we note the public 'concerns' and we will negotiate accordingly for a better deal for Britain within the EU. The vote was a simple do we leave or do we remain? Now the losers will continually keep coming back with reasons why this deal or that deal or no deal is unacceptable. Unless there's a willingness for the politicians to actually deliver Brexit (which there isn't) it'll never happen, doesn't matter how you massage the EU results on a poor turnout it won't make one iota of difference...
Exactly.
Not one remainer would have supported a 2nd vote had remain won by the same margin.
I genuinely believe that the vast majority of Leave voters in 2016 thought they were voting for a clean, simple leave perhaps to be followed by a trade agreement. They might have been misled and the complexities hidden, but that’s what they voted for. In my opinion. Anyway, unprovable now.
But this continual redefining of what the 2016 vote was about, and persistent questioning of what leave voters really voted for by remainers is understandably and justifiably pissing them off. Said as a remain voter.
I’m interested in the motivations of the 60+% of non voters in the EU Elections. I doubt many share mine (I might be the only one), but it would be good to know the balance between apathy, disgust and recognition that it was a meaningless exercise.
No one can say that they expected to leave without a deal when they voted 3 years ago, because no one was proposing that. There were numerous potential versions of Leave, with Farage advocating a 'soft' Norway version for example. This is the real justification for a further referendum. Due to the Tory party's inability to agree with itself, we are now facing an outcome that was never envisaged.
**** the 2nd referendum.....whatever the result one or the other side will still/now feel aggrieved.
Let’s cut out the middle man and go straight to a third.....it’d save a lot o ****ing about
The ballot paper offered a choice between:
Remain a member of the European Union; and
Leave the European Union
Pretty straightforward, what people said during the campaign, especially people like Farage with no executive or legislative mandate, is irrelevant.
You'll say anything to support a 2nd vote.
Would you have called for one had remain won by the same margin?
The question was:
Leave or remain.
No kind of deal was on the ballot.
You continue with your straw grasping. It's quite amusing to witness.