Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Goldhawk-Road]

F*ck me, Chuk-Up's Party have changed again, now they see the LibDems reasonable resurgence they want to take advantage. They should be told to f*ck off...

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They remind me of the creatures in Alien. If they were ever allowed to join the Lib Dems, they'd destroy it from within. Vince Cable would fall on his back on a table and Anna Soubry would burst from his guts, gore covered, and slither off behind a cupboard.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Did anyone else hear Matt Hancock fall at the first hurdle on this morning's Today program? A masterclass in how not to interview after you have just confirmed your candidacy. A large part of the reason why both main parties are so weak in dealing with Brexit is that there is nobody of any calibre coming through on either side who can stamp his authority on his party members. Matt Hancock, Esther McVey, Andrea Leadsom, the list of undeserving wannabees who think they can run the country when they can't even give a decent account of themselves in interview is truly depressing. The same goes for the Labour Party. I listened to John McDonnell fail to answer the very simple question what the Labour Party would be standing for if or rather when it gets to the Referendum or more likely, the next General Election. Not a clue. If he knew, he wasn't telling us. He might as well have put up a sign saying, "You the people decide and when you do we will adopt it as our policy 'cos we have principles we stand for. We just need you to tell us what they should be for the next 5 years."

 

[DT’s Socks]

Not at all. I seriously doubt her sanity, though. The worst PM since, well, Cameron. How ****ing dare she invoke Sir Nicholas Winton and his advice about the value of compromise? Compromise never entered her head until it was too late, and then just as a doomed attempt to save her own sorry skin. Her tears were only for herself, when they should have been for all the people she and her government have ****ed over.

It was a disgrace that speech I seriously couldn’t stop laughing right from the start it was clear she couldn’t answer a question

Plus all the Sky lot then started with the sympathy tone ... FFS they have been trying to rubbish her from the very start

She could be considered the worse of the worse imo. With Labour principled yet lost then by Christ the U.K. is one ****ty country

Blow Job gets in then we will see carnage I believe we may even see the first assassination of a PM in recent times ... if he declares no deal after attempting a new deal with the EU it will be a laugh a minute.

Boris Johnson ... is that England ? Does that make anyone feel proud ?

Dark days coming I will make up a couple more beds to welcome a few QPR fans a retreat when the ****e hits the fan

Also get this Brexit deal done quickly who wants to be linked to the U.K.

 

[Sooperhoop]

and Anna Soubry would burst from his guts, gore covered, and slither off behind a cupboard.

In her case I'd count that as an improvement...

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

In her case I'd count that as an improvement...

 

[Stroller]

I think this is brilliant, but I'd be interested to know what our resident Brexiters think of it, unbiased if at all possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...lvz0Zr-tq1z9RWtT5xK_6O7UV2YxnPM_bY8yZ9av02ir8

 

[Stroller]

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[Sooperhoop]

I think this is brilliant, but I'd be interested to know what our resident Brexiters think of it, unbiased if at all possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...lvz0Zr-tq1z9RWtT5xK_6O7UV2YxnPM_bY8yZ9av02ir8

It raises some fair points about the Tory Party which basically is in it's death throes. May's Brexit deal was the longest suicide note in our political history and anyone who though it a worthwhile deal needed their head examined, staying in the EU was a far better option than that. The entire leaving process was undermined by a lack of leadership, what the ultimate objective was God only knows but it couldn't have been handled worse.

The point about Tory MPs not speaking up for fear of their Association's reaction is a fair one but counter balanced by the situation in Labour of MPs frightened to criticise Corbyn for fear of his Momentum thugs being let loose on them. If you recall before the last election there were votes of no confidence and around 180 MPs wanting him out and I'm sure if they had a vote to oust him today he'd be gone in 60 seconds.

The bottom line is politics in this country needs a massive reset but the lack of a politician with the gravitas to command the respect of the centre ground is leaving the more extreme elements of the two main parties in the driving seat. The article paints doom and gloom as Brexit's only destination but that has been the case since the vote and every prediction has been off the mark so far. The truth is no one knows. My own view is we won't get a deal through Parliament and we will end up with a General Election and most likely a 2nd referendum that will be 'engineered' to produce a Remain win...

 

[Sooperhoop]

I do wish he'd change his top...

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[QPR Oslo]

I think this is brilliant, but I'd be interested to know what our resident Brexiters think of it, unbiased if at all possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...lvz0Zr-tq1z9RWtT5xK_6O7UV2YxnPM_bY8yZ9av02ir8

The writer has it bang on imo.

 

[sb_73]

I think this is brilliant, but I'd be interested to know what our resident Brexiters think of it, unbiased if at all possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...lvz0Zr-tq1z9RWtT5xK_6O7UV2YxnPM_bY8yZ9av02ir8

I’d like to hear his analysis of the Labour Party*. This is obviously written with a strong political bias (Cohen is a huge Blairite, especially on foreign policy) and I think it could be justifiably written off as Project Fear stuff from a Leaver perspective even if it might contain some accuracies.

Given that we are in guess the future/speculation territory, it could equally be argued that the most damaging thing is uncertainty rather than a hard Brexit, which, with a weaker £ and possibly less regulation, might boost exports (weak pound wipes out the impact of mostly low level tariffs) and the higher cost of imports might boost local production, and encourage inward investment. Personally I think that this is an over rosy interpretation and am pretty sure the social cost will not be pretty, but it’s all guesswork.

* found it
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/05...our-is-being-picked-apart-by-its-new-enemies/

We will see just how much imagination the British electorate has come the next election. The Scots have already broken the two party mould, can the English follow suit? I don’t think the collapse of the Tory and Labour parties would be a bad thing, but our electoral system doesn’t encourage a plurality of parties and there is an immaturity to politics which mitigates against the norm everywhere else in Europe, coalition government.

 

[rangercol]

I think this is brilliant, but I'd be interested to know what our resident Brexiters think of it, unbiased if at all possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...lvz0Zr-tq1z9RWtT5xK_6O7UV2YxnPM_bY8yZ9av02ir8

Why would a brexiteer respond in an unbiased way to such an obviously biased piece?

 

[rangercol]

I’d like to hear his analysis of the Labour Party*. This is obviously written with a strong political bias (Cohen is a huge Blairite, especially on foreign policy) and I think it could be justifiably written off as Project Fear stuff from a Leaver perspective even if it might contain some accuracies.

Given that we are in guess the future/speculation territory, it could equally be argued that the most damaging thing is uncertainty rather than a hard Brexit, which, with a weaker £ and possibly less regulation, might boost exports (weak pound wipes out the impact of mostly low level tariffs) and the higher cost of imports might boost local production, and encourage inward investment. Personally I think that this is an over rosy interpretation and am pretty sure the social cost will not be pretty, but it’s all guesswork.

* found it
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/05...our-is-being-picked-apart-by-its-new-enemies/

We will see just how much imagination the British electorate has come the next election. The Scots have already broken the two party mould, can the English follow suit? I don’t think the collapse of the Tory and Labour parties would be a bad thing, but our electoral system doesn’t encourage a plurality of parties and there is an immaturity to politics which mitigates against the norm everywhere else in Europe, coalition government.

Spot on re the bias.

I'm not convinced about coalition governments, but I'd be willing to give it a go.
Clearly couldn't be any worse!!

 

[Stroller]

I’d like to hear his analysis of the Labour Party*. This is obviously written with a strong political bias (Cohen is a huge Blairite, especially on foreign policy) and I think it could be justifiably written off as Project Fear stuff from a Leaver perspective even if it might contain some accuracies.

Given that we are in guess the future/speculation territory, it could equally be argued that the most damaging thing is uncertainty rather than a hard Brexit, which, with a weaker £ and possibly less regulation, might boost exports (weak pound wipes out the impact of mostly low level tariffs) and the higher cost of imports might boost local production, and encourage inward investment. Personally I think that this is an over rosy interpretation and am pretty sure the social cost will not be pretty, but it’s all guesswork.

* found it
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/05...our-is-being-picked-apart-by-its-new-enemies/

We will see just how much imagination the British electorate has come the next election. The Scots have already broken the two party mould, can the English follow suit? I don’t think the collapse of the Tory and Labour parties would be a bad thing, but our electoral system doesn’t encourage a plurality of parties and there is an immaturity to politics which mitigates against the norm everywhere else in Europe, coalition government.

Have to say I agree with most of his Labour party analysis too. Corbyn's unwillingness to oppose Brexit is a huge frustration - and vote loser. I'd like to see him gone now, but only so long as he is replaced by someone else from the left.

 

[Stroller]

Spot on re the bias.

I'm not convinced about coalition governments, but I'd be willing to give it a go.
Clearly couldn't be any worse!!

We've only just had one haven't we? And the current government can only function with the support of a bunch of religious fundamentalists. I reckon the next government will be another coalition, with Labour as the biggest party.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Have to say I agree with most of his Labour party analysis too. Corbyn's unwillingness to oppose Brexit is a huge frustration - and vote loser. I'd like to see him gone now, but only so long as he is replaced by someone else from the left.

So you are willing to lose countless seats in the traditional Northern heartlands? The only reason I believe he is calling for another Referendum is because he would not be unhappy with an even bigger majority in favour of Brexit. The shambles in Parliament over the last six months has weakened the Remain side more than those calling for Brexit. All they needed to do was to stop jockeying for position and agree behind closed doors a common solution they could live with. You can't continually harp on about one side's redlines if yours are just as immovable. Not you personally Stroller but I didn't want to come over all posh by referring to 'one'

 

[Sooperhoop]

We've only just had one haven't we? And the current government can only function with the support of a bunch of religious fundamentalists. I reckon the next government will be another coalition, with Labour as the biggest party.

I think that will almost certainly be the outcome as Labour with any leader will always have a solid core vote especially in the urban areas. The price they may have to pay to get a majority will almost certainly be an agreement to change to proportional representation which would be no bad thing as it would certainly scupper the 'Magic Money Tree' agenda and move us towards a more balanced view somewhere near Social Democrat territory...

 

[Stroller]

So you are willing to lose countless seats in the traditional Northern heartlands? The only reason I believe he is calling for another Referendum is because he would not be unhappy with an even bigger majority in favour of Brexit. The shambles in Parliament over the last six months has weakened the Remain side more than those calling for Brexit. All they needed to do was to stop jockeying for position and agree behind closed doors a common solution they could live with. You can't continually harp on about one side's redlines if yours are just as immovable. Not you personally Stroller but I didn't want to come over all posh by referring to 'one'

I just don't buy the suggestion that Labour backing a further referendum would cost them countless seats in the North. Overall it would gain them more than it would cost, I reckon. All the Labour votes that went Lib Dem and Green in the EU elections would have stayed if Corbyn had committed to a new referendum.

 

[Staines R's]

Have to say I agree with most of his Labour party analysis too. Corbyn's unwillingness to oppose Brexit is a huge frustration - and vote loser. I'd like to see him gone now, but only so long as he is replaced by someone else from the left.

Why anyone from the ‘far left’ (as Corbyn is) would oppose leaving what the EU has become is, beyond me.
Or are you saying you would like someone from the ‘liberal left’ back in charge ? Blair to make a comeback ?

 

[Stroller]

Why anyone from the ‘far left’ (as Corbyn is) would oppose leaving what the EU has become is beyond me.
Or are you saying you would like someone from the ‘liberal left’ back in charge ? Blair to make a comeback ?

Certainly not. I would like to see a radical Labour government implementing the manifesto that Labour ran on in the last GE, but I also want Britain to remain in the EU, seeking to reform it. Maybe those wishes are incompatible. If they are, a Labour government is more important to me than remaining in the EU.