Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Goldhawk-Road said:
Yes, the SNP seem to have their finger on the pulse so far as Brexit in Scotland is concerned. Be interesting to see how that translates, when Sturgeon goes for the second Independence vote. Indyref2 could be a time away because Brexit has to be sorted first, and that's an issue no one can call at the moment.

The voting system is proportional for the EU Parliament election. Here's the explanation from the Guardian:

"Unlike in winner-takes-all general elections, the voting system is proportional. Parties select a list of candidates for each region, and voters just choose a party. Independents are treated as parties with a single candidate.

When the votes are counted, the party with the most votes takes the first seat. To allocate the second and subsequent seats, the original vote totals are divided by the number of seats parties have gained, plus one. In effect, this means a party’s vote count is halved after winning its first seat, and reduced by two-thirds after its second, and so on. This approach is known as the D’Hondt method (after the 19th-century Belgian polymath who invented it, Victor d’Hondt)."

D'Hondt has a lot to answer for, I bet he's an ancestor of Verhofstadt!

PS Strolls beat me to it!
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She wants IndyRef2 before the next Holyrood election, although there's no way that Westminster will sanction it. Tying the anti-Brexit flag to the pro-Independence one is risky IMO - they are going to get big gains in the Euro election but I don't think it's a vote to gauge peoples thoughts on Independence, whereas the SNP will use it as a stick to pester the UK government into thinking that's what we all want up here. It's finely balanced at the moment, but if Brexit turns out to be the clusterfuck that both Tory and Labour are concocting then the balance will tip in Independences favour.

I'm not convinced by the SNPs financial plan post-Independence, and their insistance that we'll get straight back into Europe. I voted Yes last time, even though we were promised back in 2014 that voting to stay in the Union was the only way to stay in the EU, and look how that turned out....I'm not sure how I would cast my vote if and when IndyRef2 take place, but in hindsight I'm glad it failed last time as I think the Government we currently have, the demise of the oil industry, and Brexit we'd be ****ed!
 
Steelmonkey said:
She wants IndyRef2 before the next Holyrood election, although there's no way that Westminster will sanction it. Tying the anti-Brexit flag to the pro-Independence one is risky IMO - they are going to get big gains in the Euro election but I don't think it's a vote to gauge peoples thoughts on Independence, whereas the SNP will use it as a stick to pester the UK government into thinking that's what we all want up here. It's finely balanced at the moment, but if Brexit turns out to be the clusterfuck that both Tory and Labour are concocting then the balance will tip in Independences favour.

I'm not convinced by the SNPs financial plan post-Independence, and their insistance that we'll get straight back into Europe. I voted Yes last time, even though we were promised back in 2014 that voting to stay in the Union was the only way to stay in the EU, and look how that turned out....I'm not sure how I would cast my vote if and when IndyRef2 take place, but in hindsight I'm glad it failed last time as I think the Government we currently have, the demise of the oil industry, and Brexit we'd be ****ed!
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Yes, I think she'll have to wait on a Brexit conclusion. Then I think it's right the Scots should have a second vote if that's the general will up with you.

Where Brexit goes is the big question. I could see Farage doing really well in the Euro vote. This might persuade the Tories to bring in a Brexit PM to replace May - someone like Dominic Raab.

Raab will need time to set out his credentials, Brexit and otherwise, for the country. And then he'll surely have to call a GE possibly on a hard Brexit manifesto, in the hope that the make-up of new Parliament can agree his proposal. He may even have to do a deal with Farage.

Meanwhile, Corbyn will continue his fence sitting in the hope that it garners the greatest number of votes, but it does look increasingly like Labour is moving to a simple Remain position by trying to overturn Brexit on a second referendum.
 
Steelmonkey said:
Up here, the SNP Euro pledge is to reverse Brexit, and they are riding high. I wouldn't expect Farage and his pals to get much joy from voters North of the border (although he is apparently campaigning - there's six seats available), whilst Sturgeon is telling everyone to ditch Labour & Tory.

Sturgeon steps up call for pro-EU voters to shun Scottish Labour | Politics | The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/politic...all-for-pro-eu-voters-to-shun-scottish-labour


The latest poll in Scotland puts the SNP at 40%, Labour at 14% and the Tories at 10%, so the Tories will struggle to hold on to their one European seat and Labour looks set to lose one of its two MEPs. The poll puts the Brexit party at 13%, so Farage may sneak a seat, UKIP at 3% (so they will probably lose their one seat) and Lib-Dems floundering on 6%.

Anyone know how the voting works for Euro elections (is it first past the post, PR, or some other weird and wonderful method?).

I'd be voting Green if I thought they would get a seat.....
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Don't think it's first past the post so vote for whichever party you feel most accurately represents you. It's 100% Green for me and with the climate change stuff gaining traction now is as good a time as ever.
 
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Uber_Hoop said:
Lol.

So, let's have that proper grown-up debate about immigration in this country that we should've had before Labour did what Andrew Neather later admitted was deliberate. It always seemed a bit rich to me that Labour intentionally opened the doors to increased immigration in order to irreversibly change the culture in this country and rub the 'Right's' noses in it, yet it was also under the same Labour administration that Blair so sycophantically embraced George Dubya's 'War On Terror', a move that has led to the destabilisation of many Middle Eastern and North African states to the extent that terrorism has not withered but fomented.

As somebody on the 'right' of centre, I abhor twats like Blair far more than blunt instruments like Farage. People like Farage are the reaction. Its men like Blair that have irreversibly change the whole world, not just the UK... and not for the better.

Can anybody say with any honesty that they feel the world is a safer place post-911 and thereafter? Why is it that its so easy to label Farage a racist and make him the hate figure, when utter bell-end ****tards like Blair seemingly are allowed to flounce about and still foster some sort of relevance, when their actions have created far greater issues that Single Issue Nige ever could?

Deliver Brexit and Nigel ****s off again. Blair just keeps on coming back like the archetypal slasher movie serial killer that he undoubtedly is.

[Soz, been on the Malbec again. Its the divorce wot makes you bitter]
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Farage might be the reaction and Blair may have started the ball rolling with the 'war on terror' which has culminated in where we are now socially in relation to foreigners and immigration and anti-muslim sentiment. But Farage really compounds the issues and despite being a many time election failure he is still incredibly influencial. He knows full well what he's doing and who he is targeting and sadly he also knows that much of his target audience won't be inclined to dig beneath the surface or notice he rarely backs up his position with anything factual.
 
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How Palestinian Leaders Punish Patients
by Bassam Tawil
May 13, 2019 at 5:00 am
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14208/palestinian-leaders-punish-patients
  • "By Allah, even if we have only a penny left it will be spent on the families of the martyrs and prisoners, and only afterwards will it be spent on the rest of the people." — Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian Media Watch, July 24, 2018.
  • Evidently, the "rest of the people" includes not only the Palestinian Authority (PA) employees, but also Palestinian patients who are in need of medical treatment. Abbas has now decided to punish these patients by depriving them of medical treatment in Israel.
  • The PA decision to stop patients from receiving medical treatment in Israel does not apply to senior Palestinian officials.
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The Palestinian Authority (PA) has decided that Palestinians will no longer be able to receive medical treatment in Israel -- with the exception of senior Palestinian officials. Last week, Jibril Rajoub, a senior official with Mahmoud Abbas's ruling Fatah faction in the West Bank, was admitted to Ichilov Hospital (pictured), the largest acute care facility in Israel. (Image source: Avishai Teicher/PikiWiki)
The Palestinian Authority (PA) has decided that Palestinians will no longer be able to receive medical treatment in Israel. Last March, the PA Ministry of Health in the West Bank city of Ramallah, the de facto capital of the Palestinians, announced that it was halting medical transfers to Israeli hospitals and promised to find alternatives for Palestinian patients in private and government hospitals.
The PA says that it took the decision in response to the Israeli government's deduction of payments the Palestinian government makes to families of security prisoners and "martyrs" from tax revenues the Israelis collect on behalf of the Palestinians.
A new Israeli law allows the government to impose financial sanctions on the PA for its "Pay for Slay" policy, which encourages terrorists to carry out attacks against Israelis because they know they and their families will be receiving salaries (from the PA government) for the rest of their lives.
One report estimated that the PA spent no less than 502 million shekels [USD $141 million; 126 million euros] of its 2018 budget on salaries and payments to terrorist prisoners and released inmates. At least 230 million shekels [$65 million; 58 million euros] were paid in salaries to terrorist prisoners, while another 176 million shekels [$48 million; 44 million euros] were paid in salaries to terrorists after they were released from prison, the report revealed. The remaining 96 million shekels [$27 million; 24 million euros] covers additional salary payments and other benefits to the terrorists and their families.
Despite the Israeli deductions, the terrorists and their families are continuing to receive full salaries. The only ones who are paying the price are tens of thousands of Palestinian public employees, who in the past three months have been receiving only 50% to 60% of their salaries.
In the past few months, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has vowed to continue making welfare payments to the terrorists and their families, even if its costs the Palestinian government its last penny. "We will not accept a cut or cancellation of salaries to the families of martyrs and prisoners, as some are trying to bring about," Abbas said. In another statement, Abbas was quoted as saying: "By Allah, even if we have only a penny left it will be spent on the families of the martyrs and prisoners, and only afterwards will it be spent on the rest of the people."
Evidently, the "rest of the people" includes not only the PA employees, but also Palestinian patients who are in need of medical treatment. Abbas has now decided to punish these patients by depriving them of medical treatment in Israel.
Osama al-Najjar, spokesman for the PA Ministry of Health, said that the PA government has decided to stop funding medical treatment for Palestinian patients in Israeli hospitals in response to the Israeli deduction of the allowances paid to the terrorists and their families. Al-Najjar estimated the cost of the medical transfers to Israeli hospitals at $100 million each year.
Palestinian journalist Fathi Sabbah said that the decision taken by the PA Ministry of Health was "wrong, hasty and ill-considered." Noting that the decision was taken before finding alternatives to the Israeli hospitals, he said that the "decision was dangerous because the patients are being denied the right to receive medical treatment that is not available in Palestinian hospitals, endangering their lives. This is a heavy price."
Sabbah said that the talk about sending the patients to hospitals in Jordan and Egypt would increase their suffering. Many of the patients, he said, have already begun receiving medical treatment in Israel, and now they will be required to start from the beginning with new medical treatment in Jordan and Egypt.
"The Jordanian and Egyptian hospitals will not be able to deal with these patients with the required professional medical care, and the patients will be forced to return to the starting point and undergo new medical tests," Sabbah added.
"This means additional suffering for the patients and more expenses for the Palestinian government. Besides, the patients will have to bear the suffering of long hours of travelling to Egypt and Jordan. The journey from the Gaza Strip to Cairo lasts two to three days, while the return trip takes three or four days. This means that cancer patients will spend a whole week to get a dose of chemotherapy, while it takes only one day or a few hours to get the same treatment in Israel."
The PA decision to stop patients from receiving medical treatment in Israel does not apply to senior Palestinian officials.
Last week, Jibril Rajoub, a senior official with Abbas's ruling Fatah faction in the West Bank, was admitted to Ichilov Hospital, the largest acute care facility in Israel. Rajoub, who also heads the Palestinian Football Association and previously spent 17 years in Israeli prison for terror-related offenses, was rushed to the hospital for urgent medical treatment despite the PA's decision to ban Palestinian patients from receiving medical treatment in Israel.
However, while Israeli doctors were working hard to give Rajoub the best treatment in Ichilov Hospital, the senior Palestinian official sent a letter to the European and Spanish football associations demanding Spanish football giant Atletico Madrid cancel a post-season friendly game with an Israeli team in Jerusalem. "We are not against playing in Israel, but not in occupied Jerusalem," Rajoub wrote in his letter. Rajoub failed to mention that Teddy Stadium, where the game will take place on May 21, is actually in west Jerusalem.
Days before he was admitted to the Israeli hospital, Rajoub also called on Arabs and Muslims to "halt all forms of sports normalization with Israel."
Rajoub is not the first or last senior Palestinian official to seek medical treatment in some of Israel's best hospitals. In 2017, PLO Secretary-General Saeb Erekat, who has accused Israel of "genocide," checked into Israel's Beilinson Medical Center for treatment after he underwent a lung transplant in the US.
Palestinian leaders are again engaging in hypocrisy regarding medical treatment. On the one hand, they do not miss an opportunity to make various forms of blood libels against Israel. On the other hand, when they fall ill, the first thing they do is contact Israeli hospitals in the hope of receiving the best medical treatment in the Middle East. They do not rush to hospitals in Egypt and Jordan: they know they will not get the best treatment there.
What is disturbing is that Palestinian leaders are now putting their people's lives at risk by denying them medical treatment in Israeli hospitals. This is yet another sign of how Palestinian leaders act according to their personal interests while endangering the lives of patients whose only fault is that they do not have relatives in senior jobs in the Palestinian Authority leadership who could help them receive treatment in Israel.
Bassam Tawil is a Muslim Arab based in the Middle East.
 
Jeremy Corbyn‏Verified account@jeremycorbyn 9h9 hours ago
At least 700 people were denied their right to vote in the local elections, including an 87 year old, because of the Tories' Voter ID trials. They're trying to rig elections by making it harder to vote. This voter suppression attempt must be stopped.

this is despicable
how are all those dead and made up people going to vote

Jeremy Corbyn has handed a job in his parliamentary office to a Left-winger who admitted in court that she registered scores of fake voters.
Marsha-Jane Thompson has a criminal conviction for fraud after submitting 100 voter registration forms that she filled in herself, complete with forged signatures. Now the Momentum campaigner has a parliamentary security pass and a chair in the Leader of the Opposition suite at the House of Commons.
 
Migration Watch UK‏Verified account@MigrationWatch 7h7 hours ago
Demolishing suggestions that the EU-born are fleeing the UK, the number of EU-born workers in the UK has reached a record high of 2.42 million – an increase of nearly 60,000 on the year.

Meanwhile the number of non-EU born workers increased by over 120,000, making a mockery of the outlandish claims of the mass immigration industry that the UK is some kind of hostile environment for immigrants. If anything, the opposite is true
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
I think turn-out may be high. Brexiteers want to express themselves after three years of frustration, and the staunch Remainers will be out too. Tories and Labour will get bye-passed though.
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Well there certainly seems a lot of buzz about it from remainers I know as I am back in London for a few days ... maybe as usual I am wrong

Everyone I know talking about stopping Farage at all costs

See at last it has been discussed in the media that Brexit explained now talks about people voting for it because of frustration and protest without any idea of consequence. Still hoping it just goes away
 
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