Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Won’t be relevant soon. DUP have stared into the abyss and will fall behind May’s deal after ‘talks’, Esther McVey said on the radio this morning that she would as well, despite having voted against it twice and resigned from the government over it. They know the risk of no Brexit or a massively (years) delayed Brexit is high if they don’t shift.
I'm not so sure tbh. I still think she will struggle to get the numbers. If DUP go with May, then obviously she will get a few more and maybe a few labour may change but the numbers don't add up. Personally I find it sad that MP's have spent months knocking it and then voting for it because they are worried they won't get Brexit... They should have the morals to stick by in what they believe.
On another note, Farage is working behind the scenes to get MEP's to Veto the extension... That will throw things up in the air if he pulls it off?
Now that I am at my pc and free I will post what I had started last night on my tablet. Stan has been proved right in predicting the pointlessness of indicative voting. However I did say that is what should have happened 18 months ago after May threw away her majority in the Commons because of her pumped sense of invincibility. Whatever may have been said at the time in televised debates and press interviews about the effect of vote to leave, the question we were asked to vote on was whether we should leave or remain. The one memorable phrase trotted out at the time when asked directly was always 'Brexit means Brexit' As she did not know or was not prepared to reveal at the time that it was leaving everything - single market, customs union it was perfectly legitimate for the opposition to question and debate the possible consequences. Given the narrowness of the majority a wise prime minster would have sought to work out a consensus and then go to the EU to press that case. But no, it had to be her way or not at all. Nothing has yet changed apart from the fact that she and her remaining team are now going back cap in hand not only to Brussels but Belfast to discuss with the minority, the side that lost in the Referendum in Northern Ireland how to get them back onside. I hope it works but not at any cost. If the DUP makes further financial demands, May should tell them that this will be published in full to the press, they can **** off and repay the money they've already been given for their lack of support.
Yesterday proved conclusively (as the audience member in QT said last night 'a plague on both your houses' after one of many exchanges between the Labour and Tory MPs, both main parties are equally to blame. Indicative voting failed because even at this late hour in the process, voting followed party lines. The Tories want to retain control of the process while Labour want a general election and are prepared to sacrifice the interests of the country by ensuring the Conservatives fail. Indicative voting it seems can only really work if it is made clear at the outset by all sides, that these are free votes for everyone to decide on the basis of the views of their constituents and according to their own political judgment. The question was not in respect of each motion 'What does Teresa May or Jeremy Corbyn want' but in plain simple English, using your judgment as an MP what do you believe should happen - what do you want to see decided and incorporated into the Brexit deal. How naïve of me to think that this would happen. Perhaps it's the party political system which is at fault and needs serious reform to ensure that the national interest for all Britons is better reflected in legislation rather than policies based on political ideology and dogma by parties who are not true to any belief and politicians would happily sell the country off or down the river if it meant wining a few votes.
Having caught up with the debate on here, I noted with interest that not only the ERG and various Brexiteers who have voted May's deal down twice have signalled that they will support it third time around. That includes the Brexiteers on here who have assured us all along that all the UK had to do was stand firm and let Europe come to our door begging. What happened guys? You haven't taken it down to the wire and then lost your bottle have you? For the record, I thought May's deal was the best that could be achieved at that time and had I been in the Commons I would have supported it. It freed us all up to get on with the negotiations for the trade deal in order to earn the fortunes that are out there for us in the big wide world outside corrupt pathetic little Europe. I thought that was always the priority. The quicker we got out the sooner and the quicker we would all benefit hugely. By contrast there is still no sign that the EU's stance is weakening. Again something you have all assured us repeatedly would happen. When?
Yes I can see that happening as it will only take one or two to Vito it but not Farage’s idea as he is disliked in Europe more than Macron is in France
Could be the final tactic to force the U.K. to scrap article 50 so the fault then is shared and the U.K. will have to revisit Brexit again in a few years and of course that would require another vote
Your democracy was lost by default
Remember No Deal will never happen and nationalists need to accept that once and for all
That could happen as it will all be planted on Farage time it’s spun out
Could be the final tactic to force the U.K. to scrap article 50 so the fault then is shared and the U.K. will have to revisit Brexit again in a few years and of course that would require another vote
Your democracy was lost by default
Remember No Deal will never happen and nationalists need to accept that once and for all
That could happen as it will all be planted on Farage time it’s spun out
May has already been set up as a straw man that is clear
Farage maybe made the escape goat let him meddle away and he is one very thick **** who deserves to be the one everyone blames for the failure of Brexit
Farage maybe made the escape goat let him meddle away and he is one very thick **** who deserves to be the one everyone blames for the failure of Brexit
can mps not even be critisized now
call the police
shes calling me names
call the police
shes calling me names
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I didn't mean they'd win ever vote! Clean up in Leave constituencies with a small majority.
Pathetic on Soubry's part, who is aggressive and a bully herself
Attack by psychopaths on people just trying to get on with their lives. I look on it no differently than the Manchester bombing.
In answer to your question in the final para of War and Peace above, what the EU were frightened of was no deal. As soon as the Remainers in the Commons took it off the table, the EU relaxed and stood firm
I don't know where to begin with this I will just address 3 points.
Firstly you say Labour want a general election? That is the last thing they want.
Secondly, the deal on the table is crap and is actually worse than staying in. Some MP's may have changed their minds because they can see a stitch up in the House and are worried that Brexit may never happen. I would stay firm and say no the deal is crap. Because there will come a time when these betraying MP's will have to answer to the voters.
Thirdly and most importantly is that this process has been undermined from day one. Remainers/Blair/Robbins/BOE/Adonis/May and the rest have sabotaged the negotiations. If they hadn't we would have walked away with a fab deal.
For me, the best outcome will be to revoke article 50, have a GE and get rid of this shambles of a parliament and get a Brexit part in. Then we can walk away.
I was going to post that but thought Soubry would only be defended on here.
Good grief Ellers has had the chip inserted
The play was always called Revoke
The only thing I haven’t seen is that Farage could be set up to take the bloody lot as the stories are out there that he is pressing for a Vito here and there... either way it smells of construction to me
We will have to wait and see
Agree it will happen again and could happen anywhere it’s just a matter of time
The focus I hate is the emergence of the blame culture already when any tragic event like this needs to focus more on the loss
Agree. Loss comes first and care for survivors. Then authorities need to look into Neo Nazi sects
Revoke Article 50 and have a General Election? At last we agree on something Ellers.
There would have been a deal done by now if it wasn't for the loonies in the DUP and ERG. Don't blame anyone else.
A very touching minutes silence at the Rugby League game at Warrington.....could of heard a pin drop.
dont know why but down on the other island christchurch and nelson is full of skinheads and white gangs
must be something to do with their winters