Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

The scale is different. Amazon pays a tiny £4.5m. Ratcliffe is said to be saving £4 billion by leaving the UK. This would otherwise have been paid to the UK in tax. Which gives you an idea of what he has been paying to date, even if, as seems to be the case, his company changes domicile occasionally.

So, you get a free ride if you’ve paid more than the average amount of tax in the past? Are you suggesting that your lifetime tax contribution should be capped, once you have paid a certain amount you don’t have to pay any more? Great, I might be due some goodies. Thats bullshit though, we have a progressive tax system, the more you earn the more you pay, it’s funds a civilised society, though you still end up with more cash than you could possibly need if you are at the very top end of earners. If these people set the example of it’s ok to avoid paying (legally) why the **** shouldn’t people who really could do with more disposable income but take paying tax as an obligation of citizenship not do the same? Net result an (even) less civilised society. Of course those lower down the scale will pay their tax as they don’t have the resources to avoid paying it (legally).

I’m sure the Ratcliffe thing isn’t new news, this was in the cards from last year. **** him, he’s taken the benefits - his state funded housing and education as a youngster for example - and now feels the need to make himself even richer. If it wasn’t so pathetic I’d feel sorry for someone that much in love with money. He’s no different to Philip Green. But he is an ardent and public Brexiter, presumably on the ultra free market end of that spectrum (‘no rules, more dosh for me’). I hope he is, otherwise the hypocrisy is even more rank, if he calls himself a patriot and then makes the country poorer (he has a lot of previous moving his cash around, corporation - just like Amazon etc- as well as income, because HMRC won’t lie down and be ****ed roughly up the arse by him) he’s on the Dyson scale of hypocrisy.

Frankly I think we are better off without ****s like this, with the sole exception of the jobs they fund here. The jobs which generate their wealth.

 

[Sooperhoop]

As a counter protest, I was going to take a naked picture with "Leave the EU now!" Written on my penis, but I think I'll have to settle for "Brexit"

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It's cold on the ice, you might have to settle for 'it'...

 

[Stroller]

So, you get a free ride if you’ve paid more than the average amount of tax in the past? Are you suggesting that your lifetime tax contribution should be capped, once you have paid a certain amount you don’t have to pay any more? Great, I might be due some goodies. Thats bullshit though, we have a progressive tax system, the more you earn the more you pay, it’s funds a civilised society, though you still end up with more cash than you could possibly need if you are at the very top end of earners. If these people set the example of it’s ok to avoid paying (legally) why the **** shouldn’t people who really could do with more disposable income but take paying tax as an obligation of citizenship not do the same? Net result an (even) less civilised society. Of course those lower down the scale will pay their tax as they don’t have the resources to avoid paying it (legally).

I’m sure the Ratcliffe thing isn’t new news, this was in the cards from last year. **** him, he’s taken the benefits - his state funded housing and education as a youngster for example - and now feels the need to make himself even richer. If it wasn’t so pathetic I’d feel sorry for someone that much in love with money. He’s no different to Philip Green. But he is an ardent and public Brexiter, presumably on the ultra free market end of that spectrum (‘no rules, more dosh for me’). I hope he is, otherwise the hypocrisy is even more rank, if he calls himself a patriot and then makes the country poorer (he has a lot of previous moving his cash around, corporation - just like Amazon etc- as well as income, because HMRC won’t lie down and be ****ed roughly up the arse by him) he’s on the Dyson scale of hypocrisy.

Frankly I think we are better off without ****s like this, with the sole exception of the jobs they fund here. The jobs which generate their wealth.

Excellent. Worth a double-like if that were allowed.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

So, you get a free ride if you’ve paid more than the average amount of tax in the past? Are you suggesting that your lifetime tax contribution should be capped, once you have paid a certain amount you don’t have to pay any more? Great, I might be due some goodies. Thats bullshit though, we have a progressive tax system, the more you earn the more you pay, it’s funds a civilised society, though you still end up with more cash than you could possibly need if you are at the very top end of earners. If these people set the example of it’s ok to avoid paying (legally) why the **** shouldn’t people who really could do with more disposable income but take paying tax as an obligation of citizenship not do the same? Net result an (even) less civilised society. Of course those lower down the scale will pay their tax as they don’t have the resources to avoid paying it (legally).

I’m sure the Ratcliffe thing isn’t new news, this was in the cards from last year. **** him, he’s taken the benefits - his state funded housing and education as a youngster for example - and now feels the need to make himself even richer. If it wasn’t so pathetic I’d feel sorry for someone that much in love with money. He’s no different to Philip Green. But he is an ardent and public Brexiter, presumably on the ultra free market end of that spectrum (‘no rules, more dosh for me’). I hope he is, otherwise the hypocrisy is even more rank, if he calls himself a patriot and then makes the country poorer (he has a lot of previous moving his cash around, corporation - just like Amazon etc- as well as income, because HMRC won’t lie down and be ****ed roughly up the arse by him) he’s on the Dyson scale of hypocrisy.

Frankly I think we are better off without ****s like this, with the sole exception of the jobs they fund here. The jobs which generate their wealth.

Beg to differ re comparison with Green. Look what Green did on pensions and how he treated his employees, mostly female. And his business is mostly UK based.

Ratcliffe has a global business. So does Dyson. They've paid back their upbringing and education a million times over.

If they want to move, let them. Plenty have, a huge number of household names. They may come back, they may not. Ratcliffe and Dyson have made more for this country, paid more tax, created more jobs than I (and I'm betting you) could ever dream of making. We need more of them even if eventually when they have a global brand, they up sticks abroad.

I contrast them with the vile Jimmy Carr types that simply pay for a tax device while continue to earn their living exclusively in the UK

 

[DT’s Socks]

**** any tax dodger
Or any benefit cheater
Hate them more than any Brexiteer
You live in a country then you pay taxes
I pay two lots because I live in two countries

 

[Stroller]

Beg to differ re comparison with Green. Look what Green did on pensions and how he treated his employees, mostly female. And his business is mostly UK based.

Ratcliffe has a global business. So does Dyson. They've paid back their upbringing and education a million times over.

If they want to move, let them. Plenty have, a huge number of household names. They may come back, they may not. Ratcliffe and Dyson have made more for this country, paid more tax, created more jobs than I (and I'm betting you) could ever dream of making. We need more of them even if eventually when they have a global brand, they up sticks abroad.

I contrast them with the vile Jimmy Carr types that simply pay for a tax device while continue to earn their living exclusively in the UK

Jimmy Carr earns his living worldwide, as does the vile Gary Barlow.

 

[kiwiqpr]

brexposed
Scare stories about transport chaos after No Deal Brexit demolished after EU chiefs agree secret deal with Britain to maintain links
British planes will continue to fly into Europe and lorries can drive on the continent, even if we leave without an agreement on March 29
By David Wooding, Sunday Political Editor
17th February 2019, 2:17 am
Updated: 17th February 2019, 4:54 am
BREXIT scaremongers were exposed as hoaxers last night after their warnings of No Deal chaos were finally demolished.
EU chiefs have secretly agreed measures to ensure transport links with Britain are maintained, The Sun on Sunday can reveal.
AFP - Getty
4
Fears about lines of traffic queuing at Dover following a No Deal Brexit have proven to be unfounded
British planes will continue to fly into Europe and lorries can drive on the continent, even if we leave without an agreement on March 29.
Two announcements slipped out by Brussels late on Friday expose “Project Fear” predictions of pandemonium as myths.
One will allow UK-based airlines to continue providing scheduled flights. The other will let road hauliers, coach and bus firms carry goods and passengers across the EU.
The contingency plan drawn up by the European Commission is on the condition that the UK offers the same rights to the EU.
Former Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab said: “It is welcome that the EU wants to agree reciprocal arrangements for a No Deal.
“This pierces the Project Fear myths and shows that the UK and EU can work sensibly together.”
The Sun on Sunday Says — EU facing reality as No Deal an option
PROJECT Fear scaremongers have long been warning that Britain faces complete chaos under a No Deal Brexit.
Under their apocalyptic scenario, planes would be grounded and lorries barred from the continent, resulting in dire shortages of food and medicine.
Irish PM Leo Varadkar even said he would ban British jets from flying over Irish airspace in the event of a No Deal.
But key documents quietly slipped out by the EU chiefs have debunked these hysterical predictions as the nonsense they always were.
They show scheduled flights and normal road traffic should be uninterrupted even if this country leaves without an agreement, as long as the UK returns the favour.
So in contrast to Remoaner propaganda, a No Deal Brexit would actually be far smoother than the doom-merchants would have us believe.
And Brexiteers who argued EU chiefs would ultimately act in their own self-interests by minimising disruption are proved right.
These crucial preparations have only been taken seriously in Brussels because the prospect of a No Deal has become increasingly realistic.
So the idea of taking No Deal off the table, as many MPs are demanding, would be madness.
It is precisely the fear of such a scenario that is forcing the Eurocrats to take our negotiations seriously.
European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said in October: “British planes will not be able to land on the European continent.”
Chancellor Philip Hammond has said it was “theoretically possible” that No Deal would halt air traffic between Britain and the EU.
Jenny Chapman, Labour’s shadow Brexit minister, said: “UK and EU licensed airlines would need new permissions to be able to operate.”
But the two mandates, to be ratified tomorrow, reveal there is no truth behind such fears.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Don't the USA deal with the issue of tax avoidance by effectively taxing the citizenship, irrespective as to where you live in the world?

Seems like a sensible approach. Move abroad? Fine, but we'll carry on sending a tax bill unless you revoke your UK citizenship, and you won't be welcome back (even for a long weekend) if you choose to revoke your citizenship.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Jimmy Carr earns his living worldwide, as does the vile Gary Barlow.

Ah yes, the Edinburgh festival

 

[sb_73]

Beg to differ re comparison with Green. Look what Green did on pensions and how he treated his employees, mostly female. And his business is mostly UK based.

Ratcliffe has a global business. So does Dyson. They've paid back their upbringing and education a million times over.

If they want to move, let them. Plenty have, a huge number of household names. They may come back, they may not. Ratcliffe and Dyson have made more for this country, paid more tax, created more jobs than I (and I'm betting you) could ever dream of making. We need more of them even if eventually when they have a global brand, they up sticks abroad.

I contrast them with the vile Jimmy Carr types that simply pay for a tax device while continue to earn their living exclusively in the UK

Ok we have a fundamental difference in thinking on this issue, which is fine, it’s opinion. Yours seems to be transactional, you pay in tax what you get out of the system, any extra the system should be grateful for. I’m more of the view that we live in a country that, since 1945, has had a broad consensus that we use progressive taxation to achieve a modest redistribution of wealth and prosperity, while still allowing some individuals to get fabulously rich. Different governments at different times have changed the balance, but the basic ethos has remained in place, and Theresa May actually restated it when she became PM (though of course she hasn’t done anything to reinforce it). I agree with the ethos, which happens to be the consensus. I have no problem with people becoming as wealthy as they want, if that’s how they want to spend their time, but it’s a matter of personal integrity (not morality) that you respect the mechanisms that support a society that we collectively buy in to. It’s a part of the ‘deal’ of being British. If you don’t feel the rules apply to you, then your attitude to your country seems to be just as transactional as your attitude to tax, a kind of ‘what’s in it for me’ regression. Of course one day the consensus might change (Thatcher and Osborne tried to do this, and certainly moved the dial a bit), but I would have thought a ‘patriot’ who believes we need change would stay and make his or her case, rather than running away to ensure that a small fraction of their wealth isn’t used to help people who literally can’t comprehend the amount of cash that the ultra rich have to burn on super yachts etc.

Just my opinion. This is actually more about the often mentioned but rarely detailed ‘Traditional British Values’ than where some poxy multi billionaire wants to hide his money.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Don't the USA deal with the issue of tax avoidance by effectively taxing the citizenship, irrespective as to where you live in the world?

Seems like a sensible approach. Move abroad? Fine, but we'll carry on sending a tax bill unless you revoke your UK citizenship, and you won't be welcome back (even for a long weekend) if you choose to revoke your citizenship.

They have to file a US tax return and may have to pay tax on foreign earnings but there are exclusions available I believe so it's not as onerous

 

[kiwiqpr]

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[ELLERS]

BREXPOSED
Scare stories about transport chaos after No Deal Brexit demolished after EU chiefs agree secret deal with Britain to maintain links
British planes will continue to fly into Europe and lorries can drive on the continent, even if we leave without an agreement on March 29
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8444442/brexit-scaremongers-eu-transport-agreement/

Of course planes will fly. I have tickets booked after the deadline date. I said it was all a load of 2222.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Ok we have a fundamental difference in thinking on this issue, which is fine, it’s opinion. Yours seems to be transactional, you pay in tax what you get out of the system, any extra the system should be grateful for. I’m more of the view that we live in a country that, since 1945, has had a broad consensus that we use progressive taxation to achieve a modest redistribution of wealth and prosperity, while still allowing some individuals to get fabulously rich. Different governments at different times have changed the balance, but the basic ethos has remained in place, and Theresa May actually restated it when she became PM (though of course she hasn’t done anything to reinforce it). I agree with the ethos, which happens to be the consensus. I have no problem with people becoming as wealthy as they want, if that’s how they want to spend their time, but it’s a matter of personal integrity (not morality) that you respect the mechanisms that support a society that we collectively buy in to. It’s a part of the ‘deal’ of being British. If you don’t feel the rules apply to you, then your attitude to your country seems to be just as transactional as your attitude to tax, a kind of ‘what’s in it for me’ regression. Of course one day the consensus might change (Thatcher and Osborne tried to do this, and certainly moved the dial a bit), but I would have thought a ‘patriot’ who believes we need change would stay and make his or her case, rather than running away to ensure that a small fraction of their wealth isn’t used to help people who literally can’t comprehend the amount of cash that the ultra rich have to burn on super yachts etc.

Just my opinion. This is actually more about the often mentioned but rarely detailed ‘Traditional British Values’ than where some poxy multi billionaire wants to hide his money.

It would be great if all self made billionaires were like Bill Gates who is greatly to be respected. Carnegie wrote - a man who dies rich, dies disgraced. So it is disappointing when very wealthy people leave for a tax haven. I guess tax efficiency has been part of their business methodology and it's hard to break a habit. Dyson also expressed fears that if they got into government, Corbyn and MacDonnell will spend (and squander) his money for him.

As I say, if they have made massive contributions to the economy and our society in the past, then I recognise that. Compare with Lewis Hamilton who left before he made any substantial tax payments

 

[sb_73]

Don't the USA deal with the issue of tax avoidance by effectively taxing the citizenship, irrespective as to where you live in the world?

Seems like a sensible approach. Move abroad? Fine, but we'll carry on sending a tax bill unless you revoke your UK citizenship, and you won't be welcome back (even for a long weekend) if you choose to revoke your citizenship.

Boris Johnson, who was born in the US and has dual citizenship, was caught up in this, as the US taxman wanted a slice of his book earnings. He claimed he was going to renounce his US citizenship, but I’m not sure he actually did. He might need another passport one day.....

It’s a very complicated area. A part of my remuneration is in shares, issued in dollars and held in a US bank. I pay tax on dividends and profits in the US, but as I am neither a citizen nor a resident I can’t open a US bank account so can’t spend the money there. Every year I sign a form declaring that I have this cash under a mutual tax agreement that the UK has with the US. I’m assuming there will be more tax to pay when I bring any of it back home. I’m leaving it where it is now, I suspect it’s £ value will soar in a few weeks time.......

Trump did something quite clever last year, he gave US based multinationals a big tax break to encourage them to repatriate their international earnings to the US and pay corporation tax on it there rather than where the profit was generated. So a lot of companies had a huge cash windfall as they brought back profits from overseas and paid very little tax on it, sparking a round of acquisitions and mergers. As you say, we could do with some kind of international cooperation on this stuff......Seems to me pretty obvious you should be taxed on profits where you make the profits.

 

[sb_73]

It would be great if all self made billionaires were like Bill Gates who is greatly to be respected. Carnegie wrote - a man who dies rich, dies disgraced. So it is disappointing when very wealthy people leave for a tax haven. I guess tax efficiency has been part of their business methodology and it's hard to break a habit. Dyson also expressed fears that if they got into government, Corbyn and MacDonnell will spend (and squander) his money for him.

As I say, if they have made massive contributions to the economy and our society in the past, then I recognise that. Compare with Lewis Hamilton who left before he made any substantial tax payments

I’m not really that interested in relative levels of ****ishness. There will always be ****s around who game the system for their own gain, it’s when they try to justify it that I get a little irked. But I’m more interested in what kind of country/society we want to live in, and what obligations that places on us as individuals.

 

[Stroller]

It would be great if all self made billionaires were like Bill Gates who is greatly to be respected. Carnegie wrote - a man who dies rich, dies disgraced. So it is disappointing when very wealthy people leave for a tax haven. I guess tax efficiency has been part of their business methodology and it's hard to break a habit. Dyson also expressed fears that if they got into government, Corbyn and MacDonnell will spend (and squander) his money for him.

As I say, if they have made massive contributions to the economy and our society in the past, then I recognise that. Compare with Lewis Hamilton who left before he made any substantial tax payments

But Corbyn/McDonnell are not in power are they? These dirty ****s are hiding their money from the rapacious grasp of a far-right Tory government.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Boris Johnson, who was born in the US and has dual citizenship, was caught up in this, as the US taxman wanted a slice of his book earnings. He claimed he was going to renounce his US citizenship, but I’m not sure he actually did. He might need another passport one day.....

It’s a very complicated area. A part of my remuneration is in shares, issued in dollars and held in a US bank. I pay tax on dividends and profits in the US, but as I am neither a citizen nor a resident I can’t open a US bank account so can’t spend the money there. Every year I sign a form declaring that I have this cash under a mutual tax agreement that the UK has with the US. I’m assuming there will be more tax to pay when I bring any of it back home. I’m leaving it where it is now, I suspect it’s £ value will soar in a few weeks time.......

Trump did something quite clever last year, he gave US based multinationals a big tax break to encourage them to repatriate their international earnings to the US and pay corporation tax on it there rather than where the profit was generated. So a lot of companies had a huge cash windfall as they brought back profits from overseas and paid very little tax on it, sparking a round of acquisitions and mergers. As you say, we could do with some kind of international cooperation on this stuff......Seems to me pretty obvious you should be taxed on profits where you make the profits.

Yes, noticed that tax move when a few friends at US headquartered companies were suddenly happy to get the rounds in.

Also watching keenly to see where Pfizer spend that large chunk of cash burning a hole in their pockets, and trying to invest before they do... (the GSK consumer stuff is small fry!)

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

But Corbyn/McDonnell are not in power are they? These dirty ****s are hiding their money from the rapacious grasp of a far-right Tory government.

They're pre-empting a Corbyn victory. You should be encouraged. As Sooper said, if Corbyn got in, massive amounts of capital would leave the country faster than Corbyn could say "90 pence in the pound"

 

[Stroller]

They're pre-empting a Corbyn victory. You should be encouraged. As Sooper said, if Corbyn got in, massive amounts of capital would leave the country faster than Corbyn could say "90 pence in the pound"

**** off Goldie, they're dirty selfish ****s irrespective of the party of government. Horrible ****ers who care for nothing but their own bank balances.

Christ, I hate this nasty ****ty world sometimes, and especially now.