Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Shawswood]

For the first time in the two and a half years since the referendum I find myself believing that Ireland will indeed be thrown under the bus, to use a hateful phrase, by the EU.
Yes, we will have our frictionless border, with goods and people moving as freely as they do now, on the island, but the problem will be trade and interaction with mainland Europe.
To preserve the integrity of the customs union, I believe that goods and people arriving in France (mainly) from Ireland will be treated as though they were effectively from a territory outside the union, with all the attendant difficulties and delays that that would entail.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Is assad really that bad? Its a war situation and everything goes really. Look at world war 2 and everyone carpet bombing each other.

From what i gather syria was a pleasantish place where all ethnicities coincided until geopolitics helped the rebels thrive.

Yes. Having said that I think you are right. Before this all started Syria seems to have been a relatively harmonious place. The problem with dictators though is that however benevolent they may seem that is at a cost where you have to sign up buy in to the ruling class/party in order to really prosper. And when dissent is shown they are ruthless

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

For the first time in the two and a half years since the referendum I find myself believing that Ireland will indeed be thrown under the bus, to use a hateful phrase, by the EU.
Yes, we will have our frictionless border, with goods and people moving as freely as they do now, on the island, but the problem will be trade and interaction with mainland Europe.
To preserve the integrity of the customs union, I believe that goods and people arriving in France (mainly) from Ireland will be treated as though they were effectively from a territory outside the union, with all the attendant difficulties and delays that that would entail.

Is it "throwing Ireland under a bus" to put an end date on the backstop? It's virtually unheard of in international contracts for a country to bind itself in perpetuity

 

[ELLERS]

Please elaborate.

if something is in a manifesto saying they would respect the result and then some clearly don't. Then the MP's are not being honest to the people that voted for them.
I made it clear yesterday with John Redwood MP who's constituancy voted remain but he said he would respect the result and what the manifesto said. If people didn't want to support him they could have voted for the Lib-Dims.
So are you saying people like Cooper/Mad Anna/Clarke (Grieve who of which I should have been talking about last night) are correct in undermining our negotiation hand?

 

[bobmid]

if something is in a manifesto saying they would respect the result and then some clearly don't. Then the MP's are not being honest to the people that voted for them.
I made it clear yesterday with John Redwood MP who's constituancy voted remain but he said he would respect the result and what the manifesto said. If people didn't want to support him they could have voted for the Lib-Dims.
So are you saying people like Cooper/Mad Anna/Clarke (Grieve who of which I should have been talking about last night) are correct in undermining our negotiation hand?

You made it about as clear as a mucky window but hey ho. I'm not saying anything but the Tory party are conflicted, if they were together then they could pass a vote whether that be deal or no deal. Now I know some people who voted leave and think of the ERG as being the problem within the party.

 

[ELLERS]

Is it throwing Ireland under a bus to put an end date on the backstop? It's virtually unheard of in international contracts for a country to bind itself in perpetuity

I have said many times before that Leo Aardvark was playing a dangerous game.

Ireland now fears EU could ABANDON Dublin to save Brussels from no deal
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...eland-border-backstop-business-no-deal-latest

I also read a great article which I now can't find, basically saying 'Ireland gets close to EU and now will find out what it's like'

The EU does not give a s22t about Ireland (backstop). It is all about money/business. The people of Ireland who have legitimate concerns will not be thought about if it means the EU losing trade. That is a fact and people need to get real.

 

[ELLERS]

You made it about as clear as a mucky window but hey ho. I'm not saying anything but the Tory party are conflicted, if they were together then they could pass a vote whether that be deal or no deal. Now I know some people who voted leave and think of the ERG as being the problem within the party.

The Tories with the DUP could get something through but my point is that you have many MP's defying the result and manifesto. So they can't. It's mostly a remain house and many are frustrating the result.
It's the same with Labour though.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I have said many times before that Leo Aardvark was playing a dangerous game.

Ireland now fears EU could ABANDON Dublin to save Brussels from no deal
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...eland-border-backstop-business-no-deal-latest

I also read a great article which I now can't find, basically saying 'Ireland gets close to EU and now will find out what it's like'

The EU does not give a s22t about Ireland (backstop). It is all about money/business. The people of Ireland who have legitimate concerns will not be thought about if it means the EU losing trade. That is a fact and people need to get real.

I certainly don't think his hard line will last. A duration of, say, 5 years on the backstop might do it, and would save 100,000 jobs in Germany, 70,000 in Belgium etc etc.

At the present time, Aardvark is saying, no, we don't want to use the backstop but it must last until the end of time... This attitude must surely be playing on EU industry concerns. I see the sands under the feet of the bureaucrats in Brussels seeping away...

 

[bobmid]

The Tories with the DUP could get something through but my point is that you have many MP's defying the result and manifesto. So they can't. It's mostly a remain house and many are frustrating the result.
It's the same with Labour though.

I think that's because like a lot of people they think a no deal would be stupid.

 

[ELLERS]

Spot on Bill Cash MP.

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[bobmid]

You see I do think that Mogg, Davies and Redwood were spot on when they said there should be a second referendum once a deal was negotiated. They made perfect sense.

 

[Tramore Ranger]

I certainly don't think his hard line will last. A duration of, say, 5 years on the backstop might do it, and would save 100,000 jobs in Germany, 70,000 in Belgium etc etc.

At the present time, Aardvark is saying, no, we don't want to use the backstop but it must last until the end of time... This attitude must surely be playing on EU industry concerns. I see the sands under the feet of the bureaucrats in Brussels seeping away...

Don't normally post on here except for the odd occasion but Veradker is placing an awful lot of faith in Brussels forgetting that they were the one's who shfted the Country with the Bail Out terms.....and don't get me started on that fecking "Thank You From the People of Ireland" card that he gave to Juncker last week.....Not in my name.....

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Don't normally post on here except for the odd occasion but Veradker is placing an awful lot of faith in Brussels forgetting that they were the one's who shfted the Country with the Bail Out terms.....and don't get me started on that fecking "Thank You From the People of Ireland" card that he gave to Juncker last week.....Not in my name.....

You should post more often, Tram

 

[ELLERS]

I think that's because like a lot of people they think a no deal would be stupid.

Bob.... Bob..... Who was talking about a no deal? We have been saying for months that a free trade deal was the way forward and I believe we will get that (Article 24 Gatt).
What I and others are saying is don't take no deal out of the negotiations. Plus remember it is written in law.

 

[bobmid]

Bob.... Bob..... Who was talking about a no deal? We have been saying for months that a free trade deal was the way forward and I believe we will get that (Article 24 Gatt).
What I and others are saying is don't take no deal out of the negotiations. Plus remember it is written in law.

Who's we? And how long on average does it take to set up these free trade deals? Anyone know? The negotiations are completed aren't they? I will let someone who knows more answer that

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Who's we? And how long on average does it take to set up these free trade deals? Anyone know? The negotiations are completed aren't they? I will let someone who knows more answer that

UK and EU should be relatively quick, since regulations and tariffs start the same, and probably won't diverge hugely going forward. If business on both sides want it expedited, evidence suggests 5 years maybe. I've seen the Guardian quoting 10, but that appears to be on a worst case basis. Where there's a will, there's a faster way

 

[ELLERS]

Who's we? And how long on average does it take to set up these free trade deals? Anyone know? The negotiations are completed aren't they? I will let someone who knows more answer that

Ah bless bob has been listening to the remoaners regarding trade deals. Only problem is, they use Canada as an example which is completely different to us as that started from scratch.

 

[Shawswood]

Don't normally post on here except for the odd occasion but Veradker is placing an awful lot of faith in Brussels forgetting that they were the one's who shfted the Country with the Bail Out terms.....and don't get me started on that fecking "Thank You From the People of Ireland" card that he gave to Juncker last week.....Not in my name.....

In fairness to Leo, he didn’t present that card to Juncker, it was written by a “fan” from South Dublin who sent it directly to Juncker, who then produced it at that press conference, absolutely cringeworthy, but not Leo’s work

 

[bobmid]

UK and EU should be relatively quick, since regulations and tariffs start the same, and probably won't diverge hugely going forward. If business on both sides want it expedited, evidence suggests 5 years maybe. I've seen the Guardian quoting 10, but that appears to be on a worst case basis. Where there's a will, there's a faster way

Evidence suggests 5 years? Wow. That's quite a long time hey

 

[bobmid]

Ah bless bob has been listening to the remoaners regarding trade deals. Only problem is, they use Canada as an example which is completely different to us as that started from scratch.

Nope just read goldys post. Needed someone with a bit more knowledge than you to answer