Off Topic The Politics Thread

[DT’s Socks]

We don’t say goodbye until March anyway
Plus it’s great it’s looks like Ellers won’t get his Brexit ... never mind only two years wasted

Extend Article 50 until all the sheep are back in their pens

No right to piss take the EU Look closer to home first to see how we do things first

British politics needs to step up into this century to match the magnificence of Euro Politics

When will the Blue Sheep really understand that for years the wool has been pulled over their eyes with a antique set of rules that the rest of the world has surpassed decades ago

Everywhere you look inside your home you will see European products. Europeans will unite and adapt to any shortfall imo it’s within their culture to do so ... they will look after their own quite rightfully.

We must separate ourselves from the Brexiteer
There must be a way that the 48% if desired can still belong to Europe that has to come next

Let the sheep drown if they choose to
From the Poseidon Adventure:
You’re going the wrong way

DO NOT let them drag you under with them

Invest in Europe because what’s left of the UK will need bailing out big time

 

[DT’s Socks]

Interesting that slow house price growth is being blamed on Brexit (presumably transition, since it doesn't happen until March). Whenever I speak to people not moving home, they blame high stamp duty.

Of course it’s Brexit and the uncertainty
House growth where I live in the UK still going through the ceiling

 

[DT’s Socks]

I just watched Angela Merkel arriving in Brussels and her walking along this carpet surrounded by flags...
It just reminds me of the Empire in Star Wars. The only thing missing was that music.

The Conservative **** Empire headed by the Maybot CP3O

Corbyn Skywalker will sort the Slith Sheep a lot of which now have ringworm and scrapie

 

[ELLERS]

Interesting that slow house price growth is being blamed on Brexit (presumably transition, since it doesn't happen until March). Whenever I speak to people not moving home, they blame high stamp duty.

Goldie you should remember everything is the fault of Brexit.

What upsets me more than anything is the way we have gone about our business. It's so sad watching the leader of the Worlds 5th biggest economy going cap in hand and cowering to heads of countries that contribute about £5. It really is embarrassing.

I just hope we learn from this and that this country starts looking after itself and produces stuff for its people. All the crap about food shortages and medicines is an embarrassing situation. Yes, we cant do everything ourselves but we need to be more self sufficient.

 

[DT’s Socks]

Goldie you should remember everything is the fault of Brexit.

What upsets me more than anything is the way we have gone about our business. It's so sad watching the leader of the Worlds 5th biggest economy going cap in hand and cowering to heads of countries that contribute about £5. It really is embarrassing.

I just hope we learn from this and that this country starts looking after itself and produces stuff for its people. All the crap about food shortages and medicines is an embarrassing situation. Yes, we cant do everything ourselves but we need to be more self sufficient.

That sounds like a Maybot speech
We can’t even produce enough power to supply our nation so I would start there
Apocalypse is coming quick let’s hide in the barn

 

[kiwiqpr]

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[kiwiqpr]

“Racist” Trump just signed an executive order for urban revitalization to help lift blacks out of poverty. This order will incentivize companies to invest in black neighborhoods bringing jobs & opportunity. It also gives business loans to help start ups. Zero Media attention.

 

[TheBigDipper]

Here's a long one, but worth a read. I found it on another forum I visit, and liked it enough to want to share it. Not my words, but an interesting take on the perception gap we're all suffering from, I thought.

Our discussions seem to focus a lot on what the EU stops us from doing and not much on what it stops others from doing to us. The "freedom to" as opposed to the "freedom from" in the post...

/what he wrote starts here/

Many people misunderstand the nature of the EU. It exists as a project to implement the rule of law to bind the actions of nations. It defines a legal framework applied impartially to all member countries, just as the domestic rule of law of each nation applies to all individuals.

In the absence of rule of law, there's effectively just the rule of power/wealth. That's all about leverage and asymmetric relations, and is the goal of Brexit - to reclaim 'sovereignty' for the nation by pulling out of a framework of rule of law, and reverting to a framework of rule of power.

So there's a clash of mindsets. The major players behind “Leave” assume power and wealth rule over adherence to law - that's the way they see the world, and are trying to make the rest of the world comply. Those who work within the framework of the rule of law see legal rules as setting limits on what can be negotiated or leveraged.

The EU won't bend the law for leverage, even though that's how those promoting Leave think things work.

The rule of law doesn't stop power and wealth (and asymmetries of power and wealth) from existing, it just sets a legal framework to limit their actions. Someone mentioned lobbyists and implied corruption. You have lobbyists near the centre of power in a system based on the rule of law, just as you'd have them near power that is unconstrained by law. Absolute monarchs had their courtiers whispering in their ear and seeking advantage just as elected governments have their lobbyists. Some things never change.

The EU is an attempt to bring the rule of law to relations between countries. We're familiar with the idea that as individuals we (should) operate within the limits imposed on us by the rule of law and can enjoy freedoms that come from other people having the same limits. Law limits "freedom to" but grants "freedom from". As individuals our freedom to steal from or assault another person is restricted, but the same rules should grant us some degree of freedom from theft or assault.

The laws of the EU set limits on the actions of member states, equally applicable to all member states. They don't stop problems of asymmetries of power and wealth - the EU is struggling to come to terms with problems caused by a powerful Germany and weak periphery just as Europe before the EU struggled to come to terms with a powerful Germany and weak periphery. But there's a general belief in the EU that how those problems played out in the absence of any institution binding nations to the rule of law was not to be repeated (again).

Just to be clear, the EU doesn't exist to make the problems and tensions that arise (from people and politics and geography and culture, and whew, everything) magically go away, it exists to provide a framework of law (and the democratic structures to determine that law) to set limits on how nations can react to deal with these problems, restricting their "freedom to" (particularly the larger nations) and granting them a degree of "freedom from" (especially the smaller nations)..

The UK is choosing to reject being bound by the rule of law operating among nations. It is demanding its sovereignty - its "freedom to". That's what Brexit is all about.

As for the money, we can certainly withhold payment of the balance owing from what we said we'd pay when the EU budget was last determined in 2014 (the money has already been marked for salaries, facilities, research grants, construction costs, etc based on previous promises). That would be a problem for the EU as the remaining 27 countries would need to cover the costs. It would certainly sour future relations with the EU and, by reneging on previous commitments, likely make other non-EU countries more careful about taking us at our word in any future "Global Britain" negotiations.

/and finishes here/

 

[rangercol]

Here's a long one, but worth a read. I found it on another forum I visit, and liked it enough to want to share it. Not my words, but an interesting take on the perception gap we're all suffering from, I thought.

Our discussions seem to focus a lot on what the EU stops us from doing and not much on what it stops others from doing to us. The "freedom to" as opposed to the "freedom from" in the post...

/what he wrote starts here/

Many people misunderstand the nature of the EU. It exists as a project to implement the rule of law to bind the actions of nations. It defines a legal framework applied impartially to all member countries, just as the domestic rule of law of each nation applies to all individuals.

In the absence of rule of law, there's effectively just the rule of power/wealth. That's all about leverage and asymmetric relations, and is the goal of Brexit - to reclaim 'sovereignty' for the nation by pulling out of a framework of rule of law, and reverting to a framework of rule of power.

So there's a clash of mindsets. The major players behind “Leave” assume power and wealth rule over adherence to law - that's the way they see the world, and are trying to make the rest of the world comply. Those who work within the framework of the rule of law see legal rules as setting limits on what can be negotiated or leveraged.

The EU won't bend the law for leverage, even though that's how those promoting Leave think things work.

The rule of law doesn't stop power and wealth (and asymmetries of power and wealth) from existing, it just sets a legal framework to limit their actions. Someone mentioned lobbyists and implied corruption. You have lobbyists near the centre of power in a system based on the rule of law, just as you'd have them near power that is unconstrained by law. Absolute monarchs had their courtiers whispering in their ear and seeking advantage just as elected governments have their lobbyists. Some things never change.

The EU is an attempt to bring the rule of law to relations between countries. We're familiar with the idea that as individuals we (should) operate within the limits imposed on us by the rule of law and can enjoy freedoms that come from other people having the same limits. Law limits "freedom to" but grants "freedom from". As individuals our freedom to steal from or assault another person is restricted, but the same rules should grant us some degree of freedom from theft or assault.

The laws of the EU set limits on the actions of member states, equally applicable to all member states. They don't stop problems of asymmetries of power and wealth - the EU is struggling to come to terms with problems caused by a powerful Germany and weak periphery just as Europe before the EU struggled to come to terms with a powerful Germany and weak periphery. But there's a general belief in the EU that how those problems played out in the absence of any institution binding nations to the rule of law was not to be repeated (again).

Just to be clear, the EU doesn't exist to make the problems and tensions that arise (from people and politics and geography and culture, and whew, everything) magically go away, it exists to provide a framework of law (and the democratic structures to determine that law) to set limits on how nations can react to deal with these problems, restricting their "freedom to" (particularly the larger nations) and granting them a degree of "freedom from" (especially the smaller nations)..

The UK is choosing to reject being bound by the rule of law operating among nations. It is demanding its sovereignty - its "freedom to". That's what Brexit is all about.

As for the money, we can certainly withhold payment of the balance owing from what we said we'd pay when the EU budget was last determined in 2014 (the money has already been marked for salaries, facilities, research grants, construction costs, etc based on previous promises). That would be a problem for the EU as the remaining 27 countries would need to cover the costs. It would certainly sour future relations with the EU and, by reneging on previous commitments, likely make other non-EU countries more careful about taking us at our word in any future "Global Britain" negotiations.

/and finishes here/

No mention of how corrupt and undemocratic the EU is then?

 

[Staines R's]

Here's a long one, but worth a read. I found it on another forum I visit, and liked it enough to want to share it. Not my words, but an interesting take on the perception gap we're all suffering from, I thought.

Our discussions seem to focus a lot on what the EU stops us from doing and not much on what it stops others from doing to us. The "freedom to" as opposed to the "freedom from" in the post...

/what he wrote starts here/

Many people misunderstand the nature of the EU. It exists as a project to implement the rule of law to bind the actions of nations. It defines a legal framework applied impartially to all member countries, just as the domestic rule of law of each nation applies to all individuals.

In the absence of rule of law, there's effectively just the rule of power/wealth. That's all about leverage and asymmetric relations, and is the goal of Brexit - to reclaim 'sovereignty' for the nation by pulling out of a framework of rule of law, and reverting to a framework of rule of power.

So there's a clash of mindsets. The major players behind “Leave” assume power and wealth rule over adherence to law - that's the way they see the world, and are trying to make the rest of the world comply. Those who work within the framework of the rule of law see legal rules as setting limits on what can be negotiated or leveraged.

The EU won't bend the law for leverage, even though that's how those promoting Leave think things work.

The rule of law doesn't stop power and wealth (and asymmetries of power and wealth) from existing, it just sets a legal framework to limit their actions. Someone mentioned lobbyists and implied corruption. You have lobbyists near the centre of power in a system based on the rule of law, just as you'd have them near power that is unconstrained by law. Absolute monarchs had their courtiers whispering in their ear and seeking advantage just as elected governments have their lobbyists. Some things never change.

The EU is an attempt to bring the rule of law to relations between countries. We're familiar with the idea that as individuals we (should) operate within the limits imposed on us by the rule of law and can enjoy freedoms that come from other people having the same limits. Law limits "freedom to" but grants "freedom from". As individuals our freedom to steal from or assault another person is restricted, but the same rules should grant us some degree of freedom from theft or assault.

The laws of the EU set limits on the actions of member states, equally applicable to all member states. They don't stop problems of asymmetries of power and wealth - the EU is struggling to come to terms with problems caused by a powerful Germany and weak periphery just as Europe before the EU struggled to come to terms with a powerful Germany and weak periphery. But there's a general belief in the EU that how those problems played out in the absence of any institution binding nations to the rule of law was not to be repeated (again).

Just to be clear, the EU doesn't exist to make the problems and tensions that arise (from people and politics and geography and culture, and whew, everything) magically go away, it exists to provide a framework of law (and the democratic structures to determine that law) to set limits on how nations can react to deal with these problems, restricting their "freedom to" (particularly the larger nations) and granting them a degree of "freedom from" (especially the smaller nations)..

The UK is choosing to reject being bound by the rule of law operating among nations. It is demanding its sovereignty - its "freedom to". That's what Brexit is all about.

As for the money, we can certainly withhold payment of the balance owing from what we said we'd pay when the EU budget was last determined in 2014 (the money has already been marked for salaries, facilities, research grants, construction costs, etc based on previous promises). That would be a problem for the EU as the remaining 27 countries would need to cover the costs. It would certainly sour future relations with the EU and, by reneging on previous commitments, likely make other non-EU countries more careful about taking us at our word in any future "Global Britain" negotiations.

/and finishes here/

What is the article trying to say ?
I’ve read it twice and honestly can’t get what the point is.

 

[kiwiqpr]

No mention of how corrupt and undemocratic the EU is then?

youre not allowed to mention it

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Of course it’s Brexit and the uncertainty
House growth where I live in the UK still going through the ceiling

How come house growth is not hit by Brexit in your area then? Do you rule out the huge hikes in stamp duty competely?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Goldie you should remember everything is the fault of Brexit.

What upsets me more than anything is the way we have gone about our business. It's so sad watching the leader of the Worlds 5th biggest economy going cap in hand and cowering to heads of countries that contribute about £5. It really is embarrassing.

I just hope we learn from this and that this country starts looking after itself and produces stuff for its people. All the crap about food shortages and medicines is an embarrassing situation. Yes, we cant do everything ourselves but we need to be more self sufficient.

My feeling entirely. I'm surprised the EU leaders don't make May wear "Sucker" on her back.

 

[TheBigDipper]

What is the article trying to say ?
I’ve read it twice and honestly can’t get what the point is.

No, I'm not going to explain it to you. I'll just be accused of being condescending and "explaining it to the thick Leave supporter".

You're definitely not thick. Maybe you're just the other side of the perception gap. And maybe that's why we all have such a problem changing each others hearts and minds...

 

[TheBigDipper]

<snip>
I just hope we learn from this and that this country starts looking after itself and produces stuff for its people. All the crap about food shortages and medicines is an embarrassing situation. Yes, we cant do everything ourselves but we need to be more self sufficient.

Sit down, matey. I agree with this paragraph. Got any ideas about how we'd change things?

 

[Staines R's]

No, I'm not going to explain it to you. I'll just be accused of being condescending and "explaining it to the thick Leave supporter".

You're definitely not thick. Maybe you're just the other side of the perception gap. And maybe that's why we all have such a problem changing each others hearts and minds...

Was an honest question as I didn’t really get the point the article was making so really no need for your tone in answering.

I guess you didn’t also or you might of just answered a simple question

Think I’m gonna take a break from posting on this forum.

Enjoy

 

[DT’s Socks]

How come house growth is not hit by Brexit in your area then? Do you rule out the huge hikes in stamp duty competely?

Houses go within two weeks of being on the market

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Houses go within two weeks of being on the market

So no Brexit or stamp duty problem then

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

about time people tried to understand exactly how rational Corbyn has been over all of this

He is collecting a lot of Kudos imo

After all that the Cons have done their only comment is to attack Corbyn by saying he has no answer.

Bloke knows exactly what he is doing and will make a brilliant PM for this country

May just reads a prepared load of ****e that means nothing

When the sheep finally see this I hope they have the honesty to admit it

Corbyn is not Blair or that crap version of Labour who were also just Cons themselves imo

The future is Red

Comrade Jezzbollah and his momentum thugs will never get the keys to number 10, the man is a bigger danger to this country and its future than any other possible leaders, socialism never works just look at Venezuela.

 

[BobbyD]

Comrade Jezzbollah and his momentum thugs will never get the keys to number 10, the man is a bigger danger to this country and its future than any other possible leaders, socialism never works just look at Venezuela.

Seems to be working fine in norway and denmark and canada