Off Topic The Politics Thread

[surreyhoop]

Brexit to the side for a moment..

I noticed China threatening Canada if they don't release the arrested CEO of Huawei..

Apparently China think the arrest unacceptabe and are vowing 'grave consequences'.

Is it just me, or is the heavy irony, and a large case of 'pot and kettle' lost by the Chinese over this?

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Ah. you may be right.
If we can stay in the single market, but control our borders and make independent trade deals I'll be all for it.

This would be extremely attractive. Sadly, as I understand it, a member of the single market has to accept freedom of movement. Rules of joining the club.

Plus, Col, would you really be happy taking the rules of the SM across a whole range of regulated sectors? I thought it would contravene our sovereignty, which is your motivation for supporting leave? Happy to stand corrected.

 

[sb_73]

This would be extremely attractive. Sadly, as I understand it, a member of the single market has to accept freedom of movement. Rules of joining the club.

Plus, Col, would you really be happy taking the rules of the SM across a whole range of regulated sectors? I thought it would contravene our sovereignty, which is your motivation for supporting leave? Happy to stand corrected.

Not answering for Col (I wouldn’t dare!) but we will have to share sovereignty (not the same as giving it up) on regulations for goods and services in any trade treaty we do with anyone. I suspect the sovereignty issues with the EU are more about the ongoing role of the ECJ, shared laws on social and employment issues etc.

Norway is part of the Single Market but not the Customs Union. So I don’t see how the Norway Option would solve the Irish border tedious issue. To be honest I don’t really understand how you can be in the Single Market but not the Customs Union (just about get it the other way round).

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Not answering for Col (I wouldn’t dare!) but we will have to share sovereignty (not the same as giving it up) on regulations for goods and services in any trade treaty we do with anyone. I suspect the sovereignty issues with the EU are more about the ongoing role of the ECJ, shared laws on social and employment issues etc.

Norway is part of the Single Market but not the Customs Union. So I don’t see how the Norway Option would solve the Irish border tedious issue. To be honest I don’t really understand how you can be in the Single Market but not the Customs Union (just about get it the other way round).

Both points make sense. I'm also a little confused about the second point! Don't have time to look into it right now, but will try to do so later.

 

[TheBigDipper]

Brexit to the side for a moment..

I noticed China threatening Canada if they don't release the arrested CEO of Huawei..

Apparently China think the arrest unacceptabe and are vowing 'grave consequences'.

Is it just me, or is the heavy irony, and a large case of 'pot and kettle' lost by the Chinese over this?

Quite... It's just normal international politics, though, isn't it? Irony gets lost when you operate at that level of cynical national interest.

 

[QPR Oslo]

Not answering for Col (I wouldn’t dare!) but we will have to share sovereignty (not the same as giving it up) on regulations for goods and services in any trade treaty we do with anyone. I suspect the sovereignty issues with the EU are more about the ongoing role of the ECJ, shared laws on social and employment issues etc.

Norway is part of the Single Market but not the Customs Union. So I don’t see how the Norway Option would solve the Irish border tedious issue. To be honest I don’t really understand how you can be in the Single Market but not the Customs Union (just about get it the other way round).

I've seen the media anyway are calling a suggested solution from Rudd and some others, Norway Plus, meaning Norway + Customs Union, the + to resolve the Irish border issue. Gather some Norwegian politicians aren't so happy about the + bit, or if the UK were only proposing to join EFTA/EEA on a temporary basis.

 

[DT’s Socks]

This controlling our borders bollocks needs to go imo ... anyone who uses that in argument needs to be made to see the actual truth

We can at anytime with any system if the UK ever wanted to tighten up it could ... but it hasn’t taken responsibility ever and made the public sheep sadly believe it’s the immigrants fault

There has been a total lack of resource on our borders for decades that is not the EU’s fault

It’s always someone’s else’s fault

Anyone trust our politicians to make up any new rules going forward? ... Still we can crow we are a sovereign nation again ... well worth it ? Maybe to thankfully a dying 5% of old goats

 

[KPDHoopster]

This controlling our borders bollocks needs to go imo ... anyone who uses that in argument needs to be made to see the actual truth

We can at anytime with any system if the UK ever wanted to tighten up it could ... but it hasn’t taken responsibility ever and made the public sheep sadly believe it’s the immigrants fault

There has been a total lack of resource on our borders for decades that is not the EU’s fault

It’s always someone’s else’s fault

Anyone trust our politicians to make up any new rules going forward? ... Still we can crow we are a sovereign nation again ... well worth it ? Maybe to thankfully a dying 5% of old goats

Totally agree, the UK has failed to control immigration as well, as politicians of both colours have failed to do, for a long time.

But, that does not invalidate the argument the all sovereign nations would want 100% say over who they allow in and who is not.

Is that really such a preposterous suggestion ?

 

[DT’s Socks]

Totally agree, the UK has failed to control immigration as well, as politicians of both colours have failed to do, for a long time.

But, that does not invalidate the argument the all sovereign nations would want 100% say over who they allow in and who is not.

Is that really such a preposterous suggestion ?

In the now what gets my goat is the opinion that Brexit will automatically deliver some sort of watertight border. To achieve this would take infrastructure development that imo would take decades to complete with our current record

It is wildly believed that the UK needs up to 7 new sea ports plus surrounding networks as expansion to existing locations are not feasible. Add to that our airports ... I use Luton up to 3 times a month and have watched it grow there ... all good but already gridlocked at times with the new improvements. So often these projects are so shortsighted imo. Of course space is the big issue as I have also seen massive similar projects take place in Europe ... generally future capacity is evaluated a lot better and of course works completed within budget and time.

Border Control imo is completely possible with the UK but seriously does anyone have faith that such a task is deliverable with our current mindset ?

Almost half the nation voted to keep free movement which I was one of them. Can’t see in any way that the free movement figure of people in and out of the UK will suddenly stop I only see that figure increasing

Nothing seems to be in that thinking at all
Thinking that our borders will suddenly be closed or controlled is very stupid.

Can’t move forward until £ trillions are found and spent The EU currently does this throughout Europe with the project mentioned why can’t we?

Because most of ours have been sold off to the private sector it’s that simple and people do not get it Private Corporations do not qualify for the same grants etc than state ones

Generally our public roadways are completely reliant on Private contractors so hope people understand the problems and mess we have generated ourselves

We sold out everything almost can’t understand why people can’t see this

Look at our railways

Again anyone trust our current governance and politics to tackle these massive issues? The UK is a unique problem that we won’t see fixed in our lifetimes

 

[rangercol]

This would be extremely attractive. Sadly, as I understand it, a member of the single market has to accept freedom of movement. Rules of joining the club.

Plus, Col, would you really be happy taking the rules of the SM across a whole range of regulated sectors? I thought it would contravene our sovereignty, which is your motivation for supporting leave? Happy to stand corrected.

I've said for a while now that the 48% should have their wishes considered in a softer brexit.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

We come back to my earlier point that, as a leading member and funder of the EU, the UK could not flagrantly breach the rules of the Single Market as Hungary has (and has had threats made against it by the Commission). If we enter an arrangement, I like to think we'd abide by the rules

You mean like paying one's debts? I would hope so but to hear the rhetoric coming out of Brexit HQ we keep threatening to walk away without doing so. No doubt when the EC issues its letters before action that again will be a case of threats being made against us by the Commission.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I've seen the media anyway are calling a suggested solution from Rudd and some others, Norway Plus, meaning Norway + Customs Union, the + to resolve the Irish border issue. Gather some Norwegian politicians aren't so happy about the + bit, or if the UK were only proposing to join EFTA/EEA on a temporary basis.

One Norwegian politician, when asked if the UK could join, said it would be like inviting someone into your home who would spike your drink. That'd be a no then...

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

You mean like paying one's debts? I would hope so but to hear the rhetoric coming out of Brexit HQ we keep threatening to walk away without doing so. No doubt when the EC issues its letters before action that again will be a case of threats being made against us by the Commission.

There's a House of Lords committee opinion that we owe nothing. Do you ignore that?

 

[TheBigDipper]

There's a House of Lords committee opinion that we owe nothing. Do you ignore that?

The House of Lords is an unelected elite. We only like democratic bodies round here...

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

The House of Lords is an unelected elite. We only like democratic bodies round here...

Until it's abolished, it's part of Parliament and has some top legal brains. Let the £39bn be paid in return for a new trade deal and not before. I'm hopeful we'll get rid of May this week, and get a hard nosed Brexiteer in charge like Raab.

 

[ELLERS]

Why doesn't this little weasel 2222 off and stop putting his nose into our country's business. The more he does stuff like this the more people will reject the EU.

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[Star of David Bardsley]

Why doesn't this little weasel 2222 off and stop putting his nose into our country's business. The more he does stuff like this the more people will reject the EU.

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He’s quite an important player when it comes to Brexit. Don’t see what’s so bad about that tweet.

 

[bobmid]

He’s quite an important player when it comes to Brexit. Don’t see what’s so bad about that tweet.

Apart from having a call with May. Dissssgussting behaviour.....how dare he!

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Apart from having a call with May. Dissssgussting behaviour.....how dare he!

We’ll be lucky to still get a signal post-March.

 

[KPDHoopster]

In the now what gets my goat is the opinion that Brexit will automatically deliver some sort of watertight border. To achieve this would take infrastructure development that imo would take decades to complete with our current record

It is wildly believed that the UK needs up to 7 new sea ports plus surrounding networks as expansion to existing locations are not feasible. Add to that our airports ... I use Luton up to 3 times a month and have watched it grow there ...

Where on earth do you get these opinions from, that is not achievable, nor what would be expected ??

Almost half the nation voted to keep free movement which I was one of them. Can’t see in any way that the free movement figure of people in and out of the UK will suddenly stop I only see that figure increasing

Nothing seems to be in that thinking at all
Thinking that our borders will suddenly be closed or controlled is very stupid.

​

Once again, you cant close borders, no one is expecting this, it is sovereign control of the border we seek, not closure ??

Because most of ours have been sold off to the private sector it’s that simple and people do not get it Private Corporations do not qualify for the same grants etc than state ones
Generally our public roadways are completely reliant on Private contractors so hope people understand the problems and mess we have generated ourselves
We sold out everything almost can’t understand why people can’t see this
Look at our railways

Now public/private ownerships of utilities, we will never agree agree on this, if public ownership had delivered efficient service at a decent cost, there would never have been a selloff.

It is the fact that public ownership delivered atrocious service at a significant cost, that led to the decision to selloff.

Has private ownership delivered utopia ?? No, but I can tell you one thing, there is accountability in private ownership, and openness to enable challenges to be made, to improve the cost and service.​