Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
GoldhawkRoad said:
Farage is definitly politically active now. If Chequers goes through but weakened, he' ll take over UKIP and could do well.
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In a way that might not be a bad thing as it may concentrate minds to engage properly. It's clear neither side genuinely want no deal and I think you and I are in agreement that if we get to the stage of detailed talks the EU will have serious faultlines exposed with Member States fighting each other. I know that will happen with the sector I will deal with and think it could happen across the board. We just have to get to that stage and hold our nerve.

I'm still convinced we can agree a soft exit through a transition and then move to full exit down the line. The difficult thing in that will be obtaining genuine signs of getting our country back as we go forward to keep people like Col and many others happy. And I mean that with no insult or condescension as it's hugely important for people who voted out to know that it's happening and to buy into it. The narrative is so blurred now that nobody has any faith in it - that has to change quickly. It reduces the risk of no deal which for me is the ultimate nightmare - probably because it comes with the most uncertainty.
 
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Dan Starkey 2 said:
In a way that might not be a bad thing as it may concentrate minds to engage properly. It's clear neither side genuinely want no deal and I think you and I are in agreement that if we get to the stage of detailed talks the EU will have serious faultlines exposed with Member States fighting each other. I know that will happen with the sector I will deal with and think it could happen across the board. We just have to get to that stage and hold our nerve.

I'm still convinced we can agree a soft exit through a transition and then move to full exit down the line. The difficult thing in that will be obtaining genuine signs of getting our country back as we go forward to keep people like Col and many others happy. And I mean that with no insult or condescension as it's hugely important for people who voted out to know that it's happening and to buy into it. The narrative is so blurred now that nobody has any faith in it - that has to change quickly. It reduces the risk of no deal which for me is the ultimate nightmare - probably because it comes with the most uncertainty.
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Good post, Dan. I think WTO is doable. September and the publishing of advisory papers should open our eyes further to what will be required.
 
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GoldhawkRoad said:
Good post, Dan. I think WTO is doable. September and the publishing of advisory papers should open our eyes further to what will be required.
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It's funny - I'd live to have a proper conversation with people like yourself, Col, and Staines about all of this. We seem to be able to come at it from different sides and have a proper debate. This really is a great thread.
 
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GoldhawkRoad said:
May be, but Corbyn's doing his best to help the Tories out by making himself unelectable
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The mainstream media are doing their best to portray him as unelectable, but he's still there and his core support is just as strong. I've never known such a concerted media campaign against an individual politician as we have witnessed in recent times, but he's still standing and Labour are still neck-and-neck with the Tories. You seem keen for May to be deposed, but how do you envisage a Brextremist successor getting legislation through Parliament? They couldn't, and there would have to be a General Election. It would then depend on how Corbyn and Labour set their stall. If they campaigned for a 'People's Vote' on the Brexit outcome, I think they would win.
 
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Stroller said:
The mainstream media are doing their best to portray him as unelectable, but he's still there and his core support is just as strong. I've never known such a concerted media campaign against an individual politician as we have witnessed in recent times, but he's still standing and Labour are still neck-and-neck with the Tories. You seem keen for May to be deposed, but how do you envisage a Brextremist successor getting legislation through Parliament? They couldn't, and there would have to be a General Election. It would then depend on how Corbyn and Labour set their stall. If they campaigned for a 'People's Vote' on the Brexit outcome, I think they would win.
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I think it's fair to say in the present circumstances both Labour and Tories are suffering because of their leaders. With the Tories ripping themselves apart over Brexit and having the worst leader in living memory Labour should be 20 points clear in the polls but many won't touch Labour with Corbyn in charge.

As you say, if Corbyn promised a vote on Brexit he'd probably be home and dry in an election despite making a hypocrite of himself but there are still many negatives about him and his call for 'softer politics' doesn't marry up with the rabble-style of Momentum and McDonnell's 'kick the sh*t out of them' mentality. I get the feeling recently that McDonnell would like to kick the sh*t out of Corbyn...
 
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Stroller said:
The mainstream media are doing their best to portray him as unelectable, but he's still there and his core support is just as strong. I've never known such a concerted media campaign against an individual politician as we have witnessed in recent times, but he's still standing and Labour are still neck-and-neck with the Tories. You seem keen for May to be deposed, but how do you envisage a Brextremist successor getting legislation through Parliament? They couldn't, and there would have to be a General Election. It would then depend on how Corbyn and Labour set their stall. If they campaigned for a 'People's Vote' on the Brexit outcome, I think they would win.
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If May was deposed in October after a huge watering down of what is an unacceptable plan anyway (Chequers), the successor (Johnson, Javid, JRM - whoever, would almost certainly harden up, look for a Canada plus deal or else "managed" WTO (managed, not least because the EU has many of its citizens in the UK and owes them a duty of care that their lives are disrupted as little as possible). The new leader/ PM would take thing forward to March 2019. I guess Parliament would then vote on the Chequers-light deal offered by the EU (or anything better that they offer to resolve the matter) or managed WTO.

I can't see where a General Election would come into things, before March 2019. And by then, we would have left the EU
 
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any sufferers here

REMAINIACS
Middle-class Remoaners ‘so upset by Brexit they’ve developed a psychological disorder’, top doctors warn
Top psychologists said many pro-EU supporters are expressing symptoms similar to chronic anxiety - and are prone to anger and despair
By Natasha Clark
20th August 2018, 11:18 am
Updated: 20th August 2018, 11:09 pm
IT'S official - some Remoaners are so upset about Brexit they could be suffering from a psychological disorder.
Top doctors and psychiatrists have warned that many pro-EU supporters are acting in the same way as if they were suffering from chronic anxiety, and are becoming prone to anger and despair after our historic vote to leave the bloc in 2016.
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PA:Press Association
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Pro-EU campaigners who refuse to accept Brexit could be suffering from psychological disorders, experts have warned
Dr Philip Corr, professor of psychology and behavioural economics at the University of London, and Dr. Simon Stuart, a clinical psychologist, told POLITICO that patients could be becoming seeking comfort in demonising the "other" for their problems.
They said Remainers were dismissing their opponents who voted for Brexit as stupid and racist - in a sign they were dividing up the population into those who agreed with them and those who didn't.
“On both sides of the debate, there is evidence of considerable ‘in-group’ love and ‘out-group’ hate,” Dr Corr said. “This is only to be expected given the social psychological dynamics of the debate.”
Britain's Brexit future has yet to be decided. As ministers push for a deal they are also getting ready for what might happen in case we don't get one.
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Getty - Contributor
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Many campaigners have taken to the streets to campaign against Brexit since the vote to leave the EU in 2016
This week the Government will issue several notices filled with information on how each sector can get ready for not securing an agreement next year.
But it's this uncertainty that's causing Remainers to grow more panicked and anxious - and on high alert for new threats, the psychologists claimed.
Dr Stuart added that there was a "loss of behavioural control" for many Remainers now we've taken the decision to leave the EU, which was causing them to act differently.
He said for the traditional liberal elite, leaving the EU was "incredibly anxiety-provoking".
He added: "Human beings hate uncertainty... this is something that people living in poverty know only too well.
"And now, all of a sudden, the professional, liberal, educated middle class is getting a taste of this. It feels horrible — literally ‘feels,’ because we’re experiencing a physical stress response.”
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Reuters
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But psychologists say that Remainers are just winding themselves up trying to change things they can't
But hitting out at Brexiteers isn't making Remainers feel any better, Dr Stuart said.
“Trouble is, in the longer term it’s not really doing anything other than keeping us going round in circles, constantly talking about Brexit and winding ourselves up,” he explained.
The pair said that when Brexit gets sorted out in the next few months, the symptoms of 'Brexit Anxiety Disorder' should subside.
But to feel better they should try not to get "caught up trying to change things they can't change".
 
some might not like our version of democracy but at least we can critisise it and our leaders

Saudi Arabia beheads female activist in public: Report
TEHRAN, August 19 - Saudi Arabian sources are reporting public beheading of a female activist, who had spent three years in detention for criticizing the kingdom's rulers.
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TEHRAN, Young Journalists Club (YJC) - The Thefreethoughts Twitter account and other Saudi sources said the female, named as Esra al-Ghamgam, was executed on the prosecutor’s orders on Sunday.
It shared a video showing an executioner fixing her in a recumbent position on the ground before decapitating her with a sword as security forces stood by.
Ghamgham was detained alongside her husband Seyyed Musa Ja’afar Hashem during a security raid on their house in the mainly Shia region of Qatif in Eastern Province on December 8, 2015.
Citing the Twitter account, London-based al-Quds al-Arabinewspaper reported earlier that her detention had come in response to her “anti-establishment” activities.
It said the activist used to take part in peaceful protests in the region in support of democracy and release of political prisoners.
The kingdom’s Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman has been trying to portray himself as the champion of social reformation and a liberalizing figure.
Back in May, he lifted the kingdom’s ban on female driving but shortly before it, Saudi security forces went on an arrest spree of female activists, including some of the people who had supported the removal of the ban.
The campaigners are reportedly still behind bars, with both the arrests and continued detentions drawing outspoken criticism from international rights groups.
 
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(((Dawn Butler MP)))‏Verified account@DawnButlerBrent 24 Oct 2014
So pleased everyone liked my Sari I've finally learnt how to put it on! Happy new year!


wait till the silly woman sees this
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We live in a confusing world, so here is a guide:

If you criticise immigration policy, you are a far-right racist. You must embrace cultural diversity.
If you embrace cultural diversity but sell food based on a foreign recipie, you're a racist. Don't!!
 
This chap is running against Ted Cruz for the US Senate later this year. Hope he wins.....

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Why
He doesn't actually say anything
Most black death's in America are at the hands of black people
Sounds like its the same in the UK
Multi millionaire players Should come out and decry that rather than posturing and then going home to their gated mansions
 
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