Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Brussels aren't terrified that is rubbish more likely they are looking to the potential of strengthening the EU after all they have a junkie consumer who needs the product. Not only that the UK actually believes it is rich. Perfect
By the way Brussels is only the place where the EU has its HQ and agree that this just a place where all the nations of Europe meet. They all travel there on bicycles or cart horses apart from of course the Mafia who live in Southern Italy they don't go anywhere as they too busy in the people traffic market
And just today TM's advisers have agreed with Fox and have said we would walk away from negotiations. Davis has said the same. It is now heating up.
Barnier will reject her deal. I can see WTO coming.
Pretty much everybody acknowledges that no-deal would be the worst possible outcome for Britain, Ellers, but you seem to be almost gleeful at the prospect. Why would that be? Is your hatred of the EU so strong that you would be happy to see your own country damaged as long as the EU also suffers?
We clearly have different definitions of power. I would class the elite as those who make the decisions about public policy in this country and those who influence them. I don’t think Blairite peers sitting in the House of Lords make any policies and I seriously doubt they have any influence on the cabinet. Pro EU senior civil servants and big business are probably more influential. I think the people who are betraying your vision of Brexit are the ones charged with delivering it, not the ones moaning about it in the Lords.
The negotiations got off to a negative and very slow start due to unreadiness in the UK government and the clear EU opinion that it was a lose/lose negotiation, any outcome would be worse than the existing circumstances. The difference between this and a high court action is that there is no judge, no final arbiter. But in spirit you are right, this looks like a nasty divorce proceeding rather than a negotiation where both parties can see gains. It’s a shame.
There is certainly anti EU feeling to varying degrees in every EU country, including Germany. It’s interesting that in those where alleged Eurosceptics are in government none has opted to follow the UK example and seek or even promise a referendum on leaving, or even in the case of Italy on continued membership of the Eurozone. The majority of the anti EU feeling seems to stem from non EU migration, not membership of the single market, the ECJ etc. The EU is right to be worried about the example set by Brexit, I hope it uses it to sort itself out, and with Juncker going next year I think there are increasing chances of the many changes that are needed actually happening. Not that it will be of any more concern to us than what whoever the US president is does over there.
Well I will need a visa to travel who knows ?
Crunch time and I will have to become a political refugee as I am not staying in that U.K. . I shall return when the Brexiteers have fixed the country and get back what I am owed one way or another
Just two old blokes worrying about ourselves and so will the rest
That’s the biggest fear
EU reforms and we have left
I will not accept that there is anything like the anti EU feeling in Europe reported in the media
Small pockets yes or fluff without substance
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In a bloody nutshell
Yet no solutions or evidence forthcoming
Except news stories from the Sun of course
I'm still yet to here of one decent aspect of leaving the EU with a no deal. From anyone anywhere
At the end of the day, the civil servants are accountable to a minister or the prime minister. This was the problem with David Davies. Ollie Robbins was meant to report to him, but was reporting to May behind his back. We can argue about definitions but ultimately, civil servants have to have someone in Parliament on their side. I'd say that person that mentors them is part of the "elite".
Yes, it's like two parties negotiating to bring a high court action to an end. The arbiter is public opinion in the UK and the EU.
I think what is happening at the moment is that Eurosceptic parties are seeing a deep pocket leave the EU and it's in their interests to hold the line with Brussels to squeeze as many concessions from the UK as possible. The time when a clamour for referendums may occur is when the UK is out and is trading well and unfettered. And this is what frightens Brussels. Certain EU member countries are watching the UK forging an independent route, to see whether it is plausible.
You're right about the different problems with immigrants. Greece, Italy and Spain have problems with the diaspora from North Africa. The UK's problem is to a large extent from Eastern Europe in terms of numbers. I'm not saying there aren't good people here from those countries, but there are problems with numbers and also organised crime. Have a look at figures today on the increase in rural crime. This is committed by sophisticated gangs from Eastern Europe who are also engaged in money laundering, drugs and human trafficking. They are to us, what the mafia was to America in the C20th.
I am the same Bob
Nothing to even consider ... to doubt that I am on the wrong side of the devide
No Plans No Projections Not even a forecast
We had a few figures on the size of a bus about the money pit NHS
We have the result 52/48 totally accepted
We do have some facts about the problems we face
All very trippy
You never been to Australia/US/Canada/Russia you need visa, however I get your point Bob, let's hope it doesn't come to that as it will gain nothing.
If you think of the electorate as one living, breathing entity then 52/48 tells you that “it” wanted to leave the EU, but not overwhelmingly so. Not a hard Brexit. Four percentage points is so marginal I fail to see why anything other than something similar to the Norwegian model is appropriate.
Okay Stroller you should stick to your anti-Mogg rhetoric.
I have said all along that I see it going one way as the EU won't change or adapt so please don't make wild accusations. It's like me saying you hope it fails so you can get your second referendum.
As for damaging our country ..I love and support my country I am not an enemy within who will try and stop the will of the people. I am not the one wanting a second referendum before we have implemented the first. I am not the one knocking everything about our government and undermining the process. I am not the one supporting everything EU.
There are plenty about, I'm not one of them.
Bob many have said what the benefits will be. Only problem is as soon as they say something a remoaner denounces it and puts project fear into action. Being able to trade with the World without all the Brussels BS. Getting back our fishing waters so they don't get pillaged by everyone bar us. Don't forget the blue passport! The French and Dutch have offered to make it so there is one deal with the EU after Brexit.
You still haven't answered my biscuit question? Come on it was a simple question.
Are you saying we can't have biscuits made in the US and imported without going off? Because if you are I will come back with a fact about products from the US.
fire away.
I'd say that those who actively seek an outcome that is widely acknowledged to be the most damaging to our economic welfare are the real enemy within, Ellers.