Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Goldhawk-Road]

Sorry Goldie but that last paragraph simply isn't true. We are free to talk with them but cannot sign off deals till we leave. We are talking tot lots of countries aboutna huge range of issues. To be honest I find the EU stance around loyal cooperation a bit farcical. We are leaving so I think the EU knows how loyal we are! And they can't tell any of their members who they can and can't talk to.

It's more restrictive than signing off on contracts, Dan, You're right, there have been some preliminary talks. Signals of intent. But there have been no substantive talks. The UK are precluded from doing so while a member of the EU, and third party countries don't want to queer the pitch with the EU by doing stuff with the UK behind its back.

We'll do a deal with the US, but no one has a clue what it will be at this stage. The press are left to discuss hormone injected cows and chlorine washed chickens. May has met Trump but in terms of future trading relations, the stage we're at is what the lawyers call "invitations to treat" at present with no contractual terms agreed. I imagine Parliament will want its say when the serious stuff starts.

 

[Deleted.......]

It's more restrictive than signing off on contracts, Dan, You're right, there have been some preliminary talks. Signals of intent. But there have been no substantive talks. The UK are precluded from doing so while a member of the EU, and third party countries don't want to queer the pitch with the EU by doing stuff with the UK behind its back.

We'll do a deal with the US, but no one has a clue what it will be at this stage. The press are left to discuss hormone injected cows and chlorine washed chickens. May has met Trump but in terms of future trading relations, the stage we're at is what the lawyers call "invitations to treat" at present with no contractual terms agreed. I imagine Parliament will want its say when the serious stuff starts.

Agree with all of that - but don't be surprised if some of the easier ones are tied very quickly!
Parliament will get a say on trade bills - it has to under previous judicial rulings.

 

[kiwiqpr]

We've seen a poster banned recently, critical of lorry drivers. He rarely posted on the Politics thread, and created his own thread that was offensive. Occasionally we get a poster on the wind-up. You remind us all of the rules of the board, and peace is restored.

Don't **** with lorry drivers

 

[durbar2003]

California overtakes Britain to become the world's fifth largest economy with a GDP of $2.7 trillion after boom in real estate and financial services sectors.

As they're not a country(yet) I wonder if the EU would let us make some trade deals with them before Brexit?

 

[QPR999]

999s I guess you had a few beers last night

Yes I did mate. As Stroller has said to me earlier '' There ought to be a warning on the blue banner at the top of the page ... Don't Post When Pissed! ''

None taken tonight though, despite attending a birthday party

As you were.

Thank you to all of our poster's who left a nice comment.

 

[kiwiqpr]

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whens the 10 pound an hour demo outside the newcastle labour office laura

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[kiwiqpr]

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[Goldhawk-Road]

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Shocking personal attack on someone based on their ethnic origin. It's consistent though, with the view of the militant left, that it's fair game to aim racist abuse at any non-white that doesn't support Corbyn. Adonis should hang his head in shame.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Shocking personal attack on someone based on their ethnic origin. It's consistent though, with the view of the militant left, that it's fair game to aim racist abuse at any non-white that doesn't support Corbyn. Adonis should hang his head in shame.

Surely it’s mocking racism/xenophobia rather than being xenophobic in itself.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Surely it’s mocking racism/xenophobia rather than being xenophobic in itself.

No, it's a personal attack, an alternative version of the "Coconut" slurs against Javid that have been doing the rounds on social media. Adonis has apologised, but it calls into question his judgement and morality.

 

[BobbyD]

Shocking personal attack on someone based on their ethnic origin. It's consistent though, with the view of the militant left, that it's fair game to aim racist abuse at any non-white that doesn't support Corbyn. Adonis should hang his head in shame.

Distasteful yes. Personal attack yes

I'm not going to start calling it racist though.

If this had been someone from the right who did it I agree the left in our media probably would have been going all rabid about how racist it was alongside the social justice warriors.

I would not thought it racist then and i still don't think it I racist just because I don't agree with the far left half the time.

I'm not sure hes been called a coconut. I think its just a cartoon mocking the Tory action and ideology that hed deport his parents in the name of party policy

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Distasteful yes. Personal attack yes

I'm not going to start calling it racist though.

If this had been someone from the right who did it I agree the left in our media probably would have been going all rabid about how racist it was alongside the social justice warriors.

I would not thought it racist then and i still don't think it I racist just because I don't agree with the far left half the time.

I'm not sure hes been called a coconut. I think its just a cartoon mocking the Tory action and ideology that hed deport his parents in the name of party policy

Adonis has not called Javid a coconut. Plenty of Corbyn supporters have. By sharing this cartoon, Adonis is jumping on the racist bandwagon of certain supporters of his party, whether or not the cartoon, standing alone, can be categorised as "racist". It certainly mocks Javid personally, based on the fact that his ethnic origin is not white British.

 

[BobbyD]

Adonis has not called Javid a coconut. Plenty of Corbyn supporters have. By sharing this cartoon, Adonis is jumping on the racist bandwagon of certain supporters of his party, whether or not the cartoon, standing alone, can be categorised as "racist". It certainly mocks Javid personally, based on the fact that his ethnic origin is not white British.

I see what u are saying but will have to disagree with the racism part (which is too easily bandied about too easily nowadays.

I've always had my own definition of what is racism.

Yes his race is used but it's not because of his race that is the negative part in the cartoon. It's the Tory ideology.

Just because Twitter people are being racist (I haven't seen the comments), you can't automatically associate Adonis with them (as I doubt he's been reading all if any of the comments when he shared the picture).

Racism would be calling him a coconut directly or a Muslim terrorist etc etc

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

No, it's a personal attack, an alternative version of the "Coconut" slurs against Javid that have been doing the rounds on social media. Adonis has apologised, but it calls into question his judgement and morality.

Not the way I read it taking that cartoon into isolation TBH.

 

[awjm]

Shocking personal attack on someone based on their ethnic origin. It's consistent though, with the view of the militant left, that it's fair game to aim racist abuse at any non-white that doesn't support Corbyn. Adonis should hang his head in shame.

Left, right.... all these definitions.

Statistically, racism is a far bigger problem on the "right" than the left. Like, significantly bigger.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I see what u are saying but will have to disagree with the racism part (which is too easily bandied about too easily nowadays.

I've always had my own definition of what is racism.

Yes his race is used but it's not because of his race that is the negative part in the cartoon. It's the Tory ideology.

Just because Twitter people are being racist (I haven't seen the comments), you can't automatically associate Adonis with them (as I doubt he's been reading all if any of the comments when he shared the picture).

Racism would be calling him a coconut directly or a Muslim terrorist etc etc

Fair view, and as I say, when looked at in a vacuum, the cartoon may or may not fall within the definition of racism. But for me, it has to be looked at in context. The coconut slurs have had a lot of exposure on the media.

There's an increasingly disturbing trend that the Hard Left believe they OWN the political views of recent immigrants/non-whites. If such a person steps outside that by holding an alternative political view, they suffer racial abuse from the left

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Left, right.... all these definitions.

Statistically, racism is a far bigger problem on the "right" than the left. Like, significantly bigger.

Over the last century, over the whole of Europe, I agree with you. But see my previous post - there's a trend that the Hard Left are increasingly racist, and this includes, of course, anti-semitism. Moderates in the Labour party are well aware of it and keen to disown it.

 

[BobbyD]

Fair view, and as I say, when looked at in a vacuum, the cartoon may or may not fall within the definition of racism. But for me, it has to be looked at in context. The coconut slurs have had a lot of exposure on the media.

There's an increasingly disturbing trend that the Hard Left believe they OWN the political views of recent immigrants/non-whites. If such a person steps outside that by holding an alternative political view, they suffer racial abuse from the left

Agree. I mentioned before if that cartoon wasn't against a Tory and was shared out n doubt the left would have jumped on it

 

[Stroller]

Over the last century, over the whole of Europe, I agree with you. But see my previous post - there's a trend that the Hard Left are increasingly racist, and this includes, of course, anti-semitism. Moderates in the Labour party are well aware of it and keen to disown it.

It seems to me that there is a concerted campaign by the right (including Corbyn opponents in Labour) to exaggerate elements of anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and I would suggest that there are many more racists in the Tory party than in Labour. The cartoon that Adonis shared is not in any way racist in my opinion.

 

[awjm]

Over the last century, over the whole of Europe, I agree with you. But see my previous post - there's a trend that the Hard Left are increasingly racist, and this includes, of course, anti-semitism. Moderates in the Labour party are well aware of it and keen to disown it.

I personally think that there will always be a strong anti-racist element in the left generally. Of course, there are idiots everywhere. But even today, anti-Semitism is a far bigger issue in the right. And (again personally) I believe that there is a strong racist element that will always be part of the right, not necessarily in direct abuse, verbally and physically.